Greetings, Joe --
I want to apply a metaphysics of undefined, defined to your statement: I am my conscious awareness, the subjective Knower (undefined) of my reality (defined). Take away all intellectual, conceptual, and relational elements (defined) from my consciousness, (undefined) and I remain that which "knows" (undefined). This is so simple, basic, and self-evident (undefined) with the single exception of those weird Pirsigians who insist (defined) that subjectivity (undefined) is a myth (defined).
And what do we gain by this defined/undefined rationale? Perhaps it demonstrates that the components of awareness reduce to a duality (SOM).
Under what you cite as 'undefined' are the Knower (a subject by definition), Consciousness, Knowing, and Subjectivity (selfness). These are of course the non-existent "mental" elements or processes, as opposed to Reality which is defined by objective experience. I'm not so sure Insistence and Myth fall into the 'defined' category, however. The former is an expression of intent or will on the part of a subject, while Myth is defined only in the sense that it identifies the subject's invalidated belief system.
A comment of yours to Marsha on 8/6 may shed some light on on your motive here:
[Joe]:
Your emphasis on the term "emptiness" echoes how I view the undefined consciousness/self-awareness of the Social level. In a seven level template for evolution "emptiness of emptiness" also echoes the evolution of Subject only, the 6th higher emotional level.
In a previous post you also said:
The relationship between what is undefined S and what is defined O becomes intellectual, SOL.
I can't make any sense of the levels inferences, but you do refer to "the undefined consciousness/self-awareness of the Social level". I don't know that it's possible to define self-awareness as a Social phenomenon, but would argue that it most certainly defines the individual. What you seem to be saying is that since the subjective self can be defined only in terms of its "relational elements" (patterns?), conscious awareness is a non-entity (unless the intellect can define it). In other words, there IS NO SUBJECT, as Pirsig maintains.
Joe, I hope I have this wrong, and that you are not echoing the nihilistic position that what is objectively indefinable (i.e., Self, Value, Essence, etc.) cannot be. Please tell me you had some other purpose or strategy in mind.
Thanks, Joseph. --Ham Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
