[DMB] But I wouldn't call these "masks" because that implies the "real" face is hidden. Instead, I think the idea is that these roles are what give us our various faces.
[Arlo] Yeah, I agree. I should've scare-quoted my use of masks, because as I said, there is no "real Arlo behind the masks" there is only "the Arlo you know", just as for my daughter there is only "the Dad she knows". Continuity is something that we, as social beings, have found very useful in fostering the long-term relationships that we, again as social beings, find undeniable value in. We keep our name, our appearance, and our "personality" more or less consistent within the same contextual realms. My point here is that this continuity serves our social ends, but is not some "absolute real me". We expect it, demand it, and revolt from situations where this continuity is broken, especially when it is broken severely. But even this continuity is an illusion, I doubt many of us are the same people we were a few years ago, in name maybe, but we grow and our selves are always in some sort of negotiated evolution. [DMB] And I can't help but wonder if fantasy role-playing games in cyberspace actually serve that ongoing developmental process or if they actually divert it into meaningless channels. [Arlo] I don't think spending time in Second Life or World of Warcraft is any more, or any less, meaningful than playing on a baseball team, captaining a debate club, or repairing a motorcycle. Why can't the Buddha rest comfortably in the virtual worlds of cyberspace? The only difference is the medium through which our interactivity is channeled. We are habituated to want to believe that "face to face" (F2F) interactions are more meaningful than computer-mediated communications (CMC). But look here, this forum is (with small exception) truly "virtual". We all spend time engaged in textual based virtual dialogue with others we've never met (mostly). This is (I think) what Krimel was pointing to when he called the MOQ a virtual game. The people I interact with in other online forums, some about philosophy, some about Harleys, some about Azeroth, are truly meaningful engagements to me. I care about the "Arlo" that interacts here, and I care about the "Aenea" that interacts in Warcraft. What would you say if I told you I spent 15 hours a week working on my motorcycle? Brewing beer? Playing in a bluegrass band? Making and bottling hot sauces? Why are these any more "valid" or "meaningful" than online "play" in something like Warcraft? Are the ones that force me to see the corporeal hosts of others more meaningful? Why? [DMB] I can't help but wonder how much time you and Krimel have spent playing wizard in cyberspace and how much different you'd be if you spent that same amount of time playing a less virtual role somewhere with actual people. [Arlo] I do engage in these worlds with actual people. And I do spend a lot of time doing corporeal things with corporeal bodies of others as well. But let me pose a question. I often spend a lot of time riding by myself. I love spending a day just me and the Harley toodling around the unpopulated lands of north-central PA. I've spent entire weekends just riding, camping, thinking and laying on my back look at the sky. Should I have been "with actual people" instead of by myself? Would that have made my time "more meaningful"? What you are talking about is "balance", I'd gather, and that we need to find a harmonious balance between our solitary and our social times. For every lazy afternoon ride I've taken solo, I should spend a few hours in our local tavern getting to know my neighbors and sharing stories. Agree. But to say that the time I spend in Azeroth is less meaningful is to make a prejudiced assumption about both "meaningfulness" and "sociality". [DMB] But I recently bookmarked the Second Life starter page and might check it out but I'd guess it'll take many hours just to get going and, frankly, that fills me with dread. [Arlo] It takes only a few minutes to get into Second Life. Personally, the only virtual world I am in is Warcraft, as many of my friends meet there one or two times a week. [DMB] Oh, and it was nice to see a picture of you. You're a very handsome dude. [Arlo] I recall years ago, before this online fandango started, after having read ZMM a few dozen times, I really wondered what Pirsig looked like. I remember the day I first found a picture online (the one of him stooped by the motorcycle). I had to completely re-film my mental scenes of ZMM as that actor looked completely differently from the one I hired to play the part of Bob in my head. To be honest, that photo was taken about 5-6 years ago now (yikes!). I should post my mid-80s blue mohawk photos. But lord knows that would only get our resident 700 Club/curmudgeons going on about how rock'n'roll is responsible for unwanted pregnancies (among other social maladies). Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
