[Marsha]
Maybe Arlo will tie this all back to the MOQ. Or maybe not. Either
way, I need some space.
[Ron]
I can relate,,,,
[Arlo]
Well... the MOQ really only talks about the self as a "software
reality" that exists only through culture. As such I think there are
certain cultural structures as to the nature of the "self" that are,
in any particular culture, valuable. One in ours is most certainly
"continuity". We value it, we expect it, we recoil when it is
shattered. But we should never forget that this is an artificial
expectation, a cultural syntax, a social "rule" we more-or-less abide
by and not the absolute nature of the "self" in and of itself.
Its also a fascinating topic considering what Pirsig describes having
experienced in ZMM. When Pirsig's corporeal host was electo-shocked,
and the "old Pirsig" was eliminated and replaced by a "new Pirsig",
where is the "real self"? Was Bob killed and reborn as someone else?
Is it "the same person" because both selves inhabited the same gray
matter of the same corporeal body?
I also think it speaks to the value of the interaction. I never met
Chris. Never have and never will. I know vaguely what his corporeal
host may have looked like. Yet I've never spoken to him directly. And
yet "he" has value to me. And so I ask, what is the "he" that has
value? And I answer, the "he" that has value is the pattern of
dialogue that exists in my memories that he was a part of. What "he"
is or was "in real life" has (and I emphasize) NO BEARING WHATSOEVER
on this value. If I would learn tomorrow that Chris was really a
daughter made into a son for narrative purposes by the author, the
"Chris" that is real and has value TO ME would be unchanged. It has
no correlation with the corporeal host whatsoever, and no relation to
any "other Chris" that may have shared that same corporeal body.
Whatever our spin on identity is, I don't think we can deny its very
complex. I was watching a television show this weekend about a
teenage boy who was a "girl inside". What's the reality? Is it a girl
trapped in a boy's body, or a boy that thinks he is a girl? What is
the "real person", a boy or girl? What if he had a sex change
operation? Would he be a "boy who is pretending to be a girl"? Or
would she really be a girl?
I get continuity. Really. I get it. I post under "Arlo" here every
time rather than a new name/account with each post because I cherish
the social rewards that such continuity brings. Continuity adds order
to an otherwise cacophonous chaos. But I think its a mistake to
confuse this social agreement with some deep reality about a "real
self", and then to further mistakenly tie that self to the form of a
corporeal body.
The reality is always that the others we interact with are always
contextual presentations of a self bound to that arena. Whatever form
SA's corporeal host takes, whether female or male, for me SA is
"male" because this is the presentation he gives and I accept. I
don't care if its "really" a Heather on the other end "pretending" to
be a Nick. That is, quite frankly, unimportant to me. What matters is
the SA that I know and care about and accept as "real" because of his
value to me. Now if I wanted to make babies with that body, then it
would matter and it would be meaningful to know the biological form
"his" corporeal form takes. And that part of "our co-reality" would
have meaning. And if I was deceived I'd find that dishonest. It
wouldn't matter to me if "Heather" was a female self inhabiting a
male body if my goal included mating with "Heather". On the other
hand, if "Heather" was just a friend and I found out her body was
male, and found it meaningful to ask, and "Heather" told me she was a
girl trapped in a male body, I'd be okay with that. "She" would still
be "Heather" to me, even though her corporeal body is male and is
legally named "Nick".
But maybe that's just me... maybe you or others would refuse to
accept any self as real other than the one corporeal host with a
declared legal name under any context. I'd be curious as to how you'd
handle gender surgery and a legal name change, though, would
"Heather" then suddenly become "real"?
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