Khoo says: China today, as always has been, is not without its faults. But I am trying to understand where your pessimism is coming from. It is a civilisation completely rooted into a metaphysics of it own, notwithstanding the extreme directions it has been taken by its leaders, imperial or socialist. It makes no pretense that intellect is merely a tool (even if elements are borrowed from the West) it is not an end in itself.
Hello Khoo, and thank you once again for your thoughtful and insightful posts. I will try to explain my "pessimism" but before I do must make clear that I understand that "we" are only a blip in the 'aesthetic continuum'. That we are but 'dust in the wind' within the 'great scheme of things'(?), if you allow me to put it in this way. Religions, philosophies, civilisations, ideas have come and gone, call it 'history' and it can be argued that because of these, and perhaps despite these, we are here now. And in MoQ terms it is the dynamic force that is responsible..or put it more succinctly : people within these civilisations responding, and being able to respond, to DQ. And here is the area of my "pessimism" ( can't remember if I actually used this word) with regards to China (a huge generalisation, I know!). With my Western mind-set I see so much human (ideas) waste. In earlier posts I have attempted to describe the formal education process from primary- to middel- to college- ( and here I can include University-) level where every hint or budding of originality, creativity, initiative, expression of one's own ideas/thoughts is ruthlessly dealt with if it does not express Party ideology. And this static intellectual pattern is enforced right through to the social and biological levels. One has to experience it to believe it. It resembles very closely Orwell's 1984 projection in novel form. There is no freedom of speech, no freedom of movement and what I mean by these is that there is no freedom to express responses to Dynamic Quality. I realise I have a Western mind-set. I realise (to all those in this Discuss...well possibly only 2 or 3) that I am probably still stuck in SOM thinking, but I value individual human beings! (as indiv. stat.PoV's) Grand ideas and grand schemes ( Int. PoV's ) do have a tendency to overlook and forget very quickly where they have their origins in and from (Soc. PoV's). My very simple notion is that you have to look after your parents, making sure society it is kept healthy and functioning by ( Platt [not sure if you are interested in this at all] the provision of, for example, a National health Scheme).This is arguably a Soc PoV but let intellectual patterns of value support the side of this development. Platt asked me to provide evidence in ZMM and Lila of Pirsig's notions of compassion, love, care etc. They are full of it. They are full of the way (if I may say so) intellectual patterns of value in the personification of Phaedrus express these feelings towards social Pov's and biological PoV's: ZMM the father/son relationship: starined/ awkward for obvious reasons but considerate, loving, caring. Considerations/ care towards John and Sylvia...they are friends not characters. Relationship with De Weese: after their trecking through the mountains they stay at a hotel rather than disturbing the De Weese's. Phaedrus does not kill off the professor (p385/6): "A life time of blows tends to make a person unenthousiastic about any unnecessary interchange that might lead to more". "He [Phaedrus] makes a last attempt somehow to be nice...". In Lila, again where an Int. PoV (Phaedrus) talking about and interacting with a static PoV (Lila) which he describes as "Biologically she's fine, socially she's pretty far down the scale, intellectually ( as an intellectual) she's nowhere. But dynamically...Ahh that's the one to watch.(p 165) "The important thing was to support her delusions and then slowly wean her away from them rather than fight them"(p380) "He wasn't going to send her to hospital" (p379). What I am getting at is that the MoQ should show compassion, love, a caring attitude towards SPOV's at all times. I miss this attitude in some of the posts. Of course Pirsig is quite clear on where the MoQ stands morally. Rightly he says that social PoV's should not dominate Int. PoV's. Or the reverse that Int. PoV's should be dominated by Soc.PoV's. But is the MoQ suggesting that those nations that do, ought to be condemmned, attacked and bombed? and justifiably so?? They throw bombs therefore we throw bombs and even worse...we think they may throw bombs therefore we'll be first and are morally justified in doing so ( the pre- emptive stikes!) The majority of people within those nations probably agree with their government policies and activities to the same extent that we do with our own government policies and activities. ( i.e they are rendered powerless as well) The only thing that I see around me is that fellow human beings simply want to make a living first, survive...have a job, security, safety from Biol. PoV's. So long as Int. PoV's have a different agenda to providing these ( yes in this context be supportive of Soc. PoV's) the battle and mess will continue). Now Khoo, I realise I have digressed a lot. With this long epistle I have tried to show you some of the things that concern me as a human being who only spends a fraction of his life on this wonderful planet. And don't get me wrong: I can say I love China, its people, magnificent country. If only I could combine West and East, not only in my heart but in reality.. it is truly awsome. I look forward to you reflections on these. Andre Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
