[MD] DemocracyPlatt Holden plattholden at gmail.com
Mon Nov 3 19:10:23 PST 2008
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Hi Andre,
[Andre]
> In Pirsig's very real 'concrete' example of the doctor's 'dilemma' in
> killing the germ or letting the germ kill the person, Pirsig shows us a
> first and full level improvement of how to employ the MoQ *method* of
> reason(ing) as opposed to SOM method of reason(ing), anticipating,
> deflecting, possible (religiously inspired) moral dilemma's e.g. to do
> with
> embryo's , right to life, right to death (euthanasia).
To me an "MOQ method of reason" as an oxymoron. Why? To repeat what I wrote
in response to Horse on Nov 1:
>From the
Wikipedia entry on "reason:"
"Reasoning thought follows a chain of cause and effect, and the word
'reason' can be a synonym for 'cause.' "
>From Pirsig's Note 56, Lila's Child:
"The word 'produced' implies that Dynamic quality is a part of a cause
and effect system of the kind generated by scientific thinking. But
Dynamic Quality cannot be part of any cause and effect system since all
cause and effect systems are static patterns."
I would argue further that the MOQ must necessarily be outside the reason-
shackled intellectual level because the MOQ "sees" what the level lacks --
a provision for morals. Reason/logic cannot see that defect in itself just
as telescope cannot see itself in its field of view. It takes the beyond
reason "Quality leap" to achieve a new, broader understanding of reality.
As always, I could be wrong.
Platt
[Ron]
Hello Platt,
You are on to something I have been doing some reading on lately. My intrests
in the
origin of SOM has lead me to questions of causiality, a topic taken up by the
ancient
Greeks. Wiki sez: "
In the western philosophical tradition explicit discussion stretches back at
least as far as Aristotle, and the topic
remains a staple in contemporary philosophy journals. Though cause and effect
are typically related to events,
other candidates include processes, properties, variables, facts, and states of
affairs; which of these comprise
the correct causal relata, and how best to characterize the nature of the
relationship between them, has as yet
no universally accepted answer, and remains under discussion."
The Quantum revolution is one that got it legs from the shift in perspective of
causality from an essentialist view to one of a field theory defined in
"states".
Max Born had stated that before the twentieth century Classic Newtonian
Physics was dominated by essentialist assumption. He stated:
Therefore, I found it may be arguable to conclude that the classic notion of
"cause and effect" is indeed influenced
by essentialism which indeed is the basis of SOM assumptions. I have worked up
a short essay that touches on the origin
of essentialism with Paremnides and works from there to define the origins of
"entities".
I would argue as you have done, that the very definition of "reason" has
essentialism built into it.
that "Reason/logic cannot see that defect in itself just as telescope cannot
see itself in its field of view."
precisely because reason and logic ( as they are defined in the west) are born
of essentialism.
Essentialism is the mother of SOM, dropped when Physics successfully calculated
subatomic systems
in terms of wave states in the beginning of the twentieth century. It's just
taken this long for
western philosophy to catch up.
* "Causality postulates that there are laws by which the occurrence of
an entity B of a certain class depends on the occurrence of an entity A of
another class, where the word entity means any physical object, phenomenon,
situation, or event. A is called the cause, B the effect.
* "Antecedence postulates that the cause must be prior to, or at least
simultaneous with, the effect.
* "Contiguity postulates that cause and effect must be in spatial
contact or connected by a chain of intermediate things in contact."
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