Krimel, I humbly plug my essay for an explaination of "entities", their origin and use within classical logic with a comparison and contrast between Aristotles aim and Pirsigs aim at a empirical truth.
it may be found at: http://www.moq.org/forum/ronkulp/functionofform/functionofformindex.html ________________________________ From: X Acto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 2:06:59 PM Subject: Re: [MD] The Menu/Reality issue Ron: Keeping Pirsig in mind when we use the term "static", static refers to both mental and physical, both S and O. Thus it is not "purely" mental. but expereince as a whole. When Pirsig places emphasis on "pre-intellect" he exhalts inductive expereince over deductive reason. Declaring that it serves as a more accurate standard of truth. When we deduce we create abstractions(entities) and manipulate them within laws of operation (axioms). [Marsha] Even 'experience' is an analogy. [Krimel] Analogous to what? Ron: Dynamic Quality [Ham] Not if you understand that objects and events are phenomenal. They represent our intellectual constructs of Value (or what Pirsig calls "pre-intellectual experience"). Now, if you are regard Value as "mental", then everything is subjective and reality is, indeed, a solipsism. But this is not what Pirsig says. Instead, he equates Quality (Value) with Reality as primary to the S/O patterns of experiential existence. These "patterns" are phenomena -- the experienced "forms" of Value that we objectivize as Being. [Krimel] You leave me wondering which meaning of phenomena you intend. In physics it means events in the external world. In philosophy it refers to purely mental events. Which do you mean or is the confusion intentional? You say that '"patterns" are phenomena,' I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. How does one "objectivize" anything? Ron: He means both, we objectivize when we take the menu for the food. when we take abstract entities as what IS and hold that as truth. Ron: I was waiting for this comment, NO. Remember the illusion conversations? We are recognizing an ultimate reality, we just realize that what we know of it is a static conceptualization of infinitly running stimuli or qualia. [Krimel] I don't see how this clarifies much. You are still left with "static conceptualizations" which strike me as purely private "mental" events. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
