Greetings,
At 04:53 AM 12/27/2008, Bo wrote:
Hi Marsha and all Xmas survivors.
26 Dec. 2008 at 6:17, MarshaV wrote:
[Bo:]
I must admit I did not listen, some "RealPlayer" had to be bought.
Free download from iTunes, and you can listen with the iTunes
software (also free). I'm sorry you didn't get to listen, it was
interesting because of the new understanding of Neanderthals. And
the Eric Fischl interview was very articulate.
>[Marsha:]
> Only conceptual ideas (static patterns of value) overlaid onto dynamic
> quality. For me, ALL spovs are conceptual patterns. Categorizing
> patterns as inorganic, biological, social and intellectual is a helpful
> tool, but not the important aspect of this new point-of-view.
[Bo:]
Here's where I balk. MOQ's configuration isn't DQ/CONCEPTS.
Concepts as less real than the reality they conceptualize is intellect
(S/O). Or turned round: The reality that we by language try to
conceptualize is science's objective truth. This is the highest STATIC
good yet subordinated the overall DQ/SQ configuration
Bo,
Your bulking does not bother me. I'd be bothered if RMP bulked,
because it is his ZAMM and LILA that I joined this list. I did not
join this group because of your SOL interpretation of his MOQ. It is
an interesting interpretation and you are entitled to hold it, but it
is not THE interpretation, and not an interpretation that interests
me. I am more interested in the nature of all patterns.
I understand all patterns to be conceptual/thought patterns. The
nature of ALL static patterns of value is conceptual. Inorganic and
biological patterns have as their referent external phenomenon, and
Social and Intellectual patterns having as their referent internal
concepts. ALL these conceptual patterns equal reality. Dynamic
Quality is outside of this static patterned reality, and is unknown to us.
So what do I think is gained by understanding the nature of
patterns? As overlapping, interrelated, interconnected mind (not
brain) stuff, patterns become transparent and cannot be mistaken for
subjects or objects. Patterns can still be pursued for a better
understanding, but with a higher respect for the fact that then are
ever-changing, overlapping, interconnected and interrelated and not
different from our experience.
[Marsha:]
> Science often seems very arrogant and stupid. What thrilled me about
> this program was an acknowledgement that what was known has changed.
> Suddenly something so small seems very hopeful.
[Bo:]
This is a subtle point. There are scientists who acknowledge a "higher
reality" like Einstein, but if this higher reality is classical religious
(Semitic") belief there is trouble for instance harmonizing creation in
seven days with evolution But there's no conflict between the Quality
Reality and scientists working at its 4th. level. Yes, many scientific
disciplines may come up with interesting knowledge, but physics has
IMO reached the region where dynamics "shines through".
Some theoretical physicist have a quality point-of-view when it comes
to Quantum science. Some DO NOT. Some are trying to reify their
imaginations.
> Did you happen to listen to the interview with Eric Fischl? Do you
> think people are only capable of changing their point-of-view if they
> are suffering? And it is for the artist to show them and make them
> experience their suffering? This seems to be a serious question. Or
> maybe not Some would say to just paint. - Maybe you think change
> happens when it becomes rational to do so?
As said no, I did not listen. I have another computer at my studio place
and will try it there. About suffering, you mean under torture? ;-)
Seriously, hardship makes us find new ways and means, but "change
our point of view" ... hardly. I just read about the Libanese journalist
Samir Kassir who wrote a book that in my language is called "The
Arabic World's tragedy" that advocates an Arabic (or lets call a spade
...) Islamic) World Renaissance like the Western one ... and naturally
he was killed. This is the least thing the Islamists want. From our
elevated MOQ stance we know that this spelt the Social/Intellectual
transition, and the level below don't recognize any higher value, it
looks like destruction of own value and fight it with all their might
...what we know as terrorism.
Maybe if more understood the nature of what think to be reality,
there would be less necessity to kill for it.
Marsha
.
.
Credo of Albert Einstein: Although I am a typical loner in daily
life, my consciousness of belonging to the invisible community of
those who strive for truth, beauty and justice has preserved me from
feeling isolated.
.
.
.
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