[dmb] What does it mean to say "the sound of the world IS the mythos"? The sound of the world is a mixture of ringing phones, pleading ads, rushing traffic, multi-tasking busyness and talk radio blowhards. That does not constitute a myth. It's just noise.
[Krimel] Well take ringing phone. The sound of a ringing phone has a mythos all its own. It signals an incoming message. It is the Greek god Mercury; the herald of good news; the harbinger of doom. Or pleading ads. In a BBC series called "The Century of the Self," Adam Curtis shows how Edward Bernays was the first to apply Freudian theory to advertising as early as 1917. (Curtis is also known for "The Power of Nightmare"). Freud was Bernays' uncle. By the late 20's the founder of Behaviorism, John Watson had entered the world of advertising. Those "pleading ads" are nothing less than calculated manipulations of the Mythos. Or rushing traffic. From wagon trains headed west to Steinbeck's Okies in exodus to Easy Rider to The Transporter; the Mythos is there at every bend in the road. Or multi-tasking. Isn't multitasking a bit like shape shifting? I would personally argue that it is a higher state of consciousness. It requires better integration of brain functioning. In fact the bundle of nerves that connects the two halves of the brain together in larger in women than in men. I don't think it is sexist to say that women are better multitaskers than men. Yeah, talk radio blow hards are not really an upgrade from just noise but the Mythos allows us to find meaning in even just noise. Or perhaps the Mythos is the sense we make out of the noise. [dmb] I was thinking (along with Emerson, Campbell, Jung, Dewey, Heidegger, Pirsig and others) that the technological world cuts us off from nature and that nature is the source of myth and its symbolism. [Krimel] Being cut off from nature is one thing. But which of them says that nature is the ONLY source of myth and symbolism? Back in the 80's Spielberg produced "Amazing Stories" It began with group of half naked tribesmen sitting around a fire. An old man was telling a story. As the theme music quickened the tribe and campfire were morphed into a family sitting before the TV. The "Butterfly Effect" is mathematical Mythos. Alien abduction is the modern incarnation of demon possession. Hell, demon possession is alive and well at your local multiplex. There is so much Mythos surrounding the automobile I don't even know were to start. Grace Kelly in sunglasses and a convertible; top down, blond air in a breeze. There's Death Race, the soccer mom's van, a prom dates dress on the floorboard of a limo, Romeo, about to reach for second base when a slasher snatches his date through the passenger window of a sedan. I can imagine most of the dudes you mention saying that technology is replacing nature as a source of Mythos. I can imagine several of them whining about it. All but Emerson must have at least had the chance to see Chaplin's "Modern Times". I'm sorry Dave, ut the time for whining is over. The deed is done. Welcome to the new millennium. [dmb] And if myth is collective then what sense does it make to claim that we only have to read the symbols from someone else's? To the extent that we have our own myth, it is only a particular subset of something the whole species shares. [Krimel] The whole species shares a common biological heritage and a shared set of environmental constraints on our individual survival. A "particular subset" arises as a successful strategy for dealing with individual environmental constraints and passing along the biological heritage on to the next generation. It is not surprising that common biology and common constraints would produce common mythological themes and expression. The Mythos speaks directly to our individual needs, motivations, emotions and desires. The particular subset of symbols we use the express the Mythos is not locked into ancient patterns or into ancient understandings. Rather it represents and expresses the shared experience of the "particular subset". We have to read, that is, apply Logos to understand the myths of someone else's "particular subset". Applying Logos we might agree that Moses and Merlin have much in common or that the Norse Loki resembles the African Anansi. But we eat at Colonel Sanders and we laugh at Ashton Kusher punking people. Not so long ago Merrell Lynch's bull and Prudential's rock made us feel confident. [dmb] I mean, it seems pretty clear to me that you don't understand the problem. Why is the psyche symbolized by a butterfly? A snake? Why does the quaternity show up all over the world and what does that symbolize? Why is the kingdom of heaven like a mustard seed? Maybe this is all quite clear to you but most people contemporary people are baffled by these symbols despite their centrality in myth. [Krimel] To ask why a particular symbol symbolizes a particular thing is to apply the Logos to the Mythos. If it requires an explanation, it is not functioning as Mythos. But that is not to say that something else does not function in its place. We live in the Mythos. We met it at the water cooler. It follows us through traffic. We are electrified by it. The Mythos functions precisely because people can't tell you what its symbols "stand for". They understand the effect the symbols have on them. They understand how the Mythos makes them feel. If you require them to say why, that's Logos. Most contemporary people may be baffled by the symbols you think they should be responding to. But that does not mean they are not responding to the modern Mythos or that the modern Mythos is deprived of nutrients because it has roots in technology. BTW, is there some setting you could tweak in Hotmail for perhaps try double spacing for paragraphs when you type? Your posts really are hard to read. 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