Krimel said: In a previous post I spoke of Kant's apriori as "formatting". I think this term bears closer examination. In Lila Pirsig best expression of the concept if not the term itself is here: "Certainly the novel cannot exist in the computer without a parallel pattern of voltages to support it. But that does not mean that the novel is an expression or property of those voltages. It doesn't have to exist in any electronic circuits at all. It can also reside in magnetic domains on a disk or a drum or a tape, but again it is not composed of magnetic domains nor is it possessed by them..."
dmb says: I don't the Pirsig quote has anything to do with Kant. I think your interpretation of it turns the actual point on it's head. Pirsig is explaining the relationship between the levels of static quality. [Krimel] Actually Pirsig explains a bit about the relationship between hardware and software and the distinction between high and low level code. He then says, "What makes all this significant to the Metaphysics of Quality is its striking parallelism to the interrelationship of different levels of static patterns of quality." Then he gives some examples of how a "novel" can exist in a variety of formats. [dmb] In the same way that the novel is NOT a property of voltages in the computer, ideas are NOT a property of brains. This is a denial of reductionism. But you've construed as just that. [Krimel] Nobody said the novel is a property of voltages. Not me, not Pirsig. This has nothing to do with reductionism. A novel can exist on a variety of forms those forms are formats. As Pirsig was thinking about ZMM; it was formatted as thoughts. As he was typing; it was formatted as a series of movements of his fingers. Then it became either bits and bytes or patterns of ink on paper. An audiobook version was made and it gets formatted into magnetic tape (the audiobook was pre-CD) When the tape is played the novel is formatted into sound waves. Pirsig talks to Redford in Lila about reformatting ZMM into a movie. During that meeting with Redford Pirsig talks about the format of such meetings and how the Hollywood format must be adhered to. [dnb] As Kant saw it the categories of the mind shape the sense data the way a pasta machine shapes the dough into various kinds of noodles. [Krimel] I know this has become a geeky computer term and the pasta machine example is for technotards. The pasta machine formats dough, Dave. The various forms it takes are the formats for different kinds of pasta dishes. [dmb] What Kant didn't see was that these categories are NOT inherent. [Krimel] I am not altogether sure Kant does think of aprioi in terms of heritability. But you are right, I do. At least certain structures of our mental process are a function of our genetic programming. Genes are a form of memory. Like learning like memory, gene allow the experiences of the past to act recursively on the present. Our sensory systems are inherited, as are the perceptual equipment for processing that data. Evolution has selected the kinds of data in the environment most salient to creatures like us and we are genetically prepared to collect this data and use it to reduce uncertainty in our environment. In other words our senses and the biological systems that support them allows us perhaps even leave us no choice but to see patterns and make meaning. [dmb] They are products of culture and language. The biological level, including the brain and sense organs, play a role in determining the shape of our understanding but in the MOQ categories like time and space are derived from culture, not physiology. [Krimel] I think that Wilson makes a convincing argument that genetics plays a huge role in the format of both culture and language. His argument rests in part on the fact that the range of variability in the expression of both language and culture is so narrow. The ability to learn a language is almost universally agreed to be inherited. So is the biological need for physical contact and social interaction as well as the number of close associates we can effectively interact with. [dmb] We can see this most clearly, I think, in Pirsig's correction of Descartes. His famous claim should be altered to say French language and culture exists, therefore I think, therefore I am. [Krimel] There are various levels of formatting. A low level format, the kind I think applies to Kant's apriori, sets the conditions and structure of how meaningful data will accumulate. On a disk drive for example, a magnetic head lays down a series of reference points on a magnetic surface. These reference points specify were data can be stored and later retrieved. The Data itself is then laid down in a particular format all its own. Text has a particular format that can be read as text. Pictures have a particular format of encoded arrays of patterns of color. Spreadsheets and numerical data are formated so that they can be read and calculations performed. Programs are formatted on the disk as sets of instructions that can be completed sequentially. Each of these kinds of data can be formatted at even higher levels. Text can be formatted to be of a certain type face, in a certain size with margins and tabs. A legal documents has a particular format, a poem another, a novel another, a friendly letter another. These higher level text formats do not depend on the low level formatting of disk drives. But they can not be encoded or decoded to a disk drive unless they are formatted to do so. Similarly they depend on the kind of equipment used to set type. In the old days of newspapers they would be formatted into patterns of melted lead which has a set of rules of its own. Or they might be typed on an IBM Selectric which has a set of formatting rules of its own. Maybe this is why Pirsig says, "What makes all this significant to the Metaphysics of Quality is its striking parallelism to the interrelationship of different levels of static patterns of quality." Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
