Krimel said:[Things-in-themselves] are TiTs because whatever existence they have is independent of the perceiver.
dmb says:Right. And that's the problem with them. Things in themselves are objective. They exist regardless of our perception of them. All the subject can know is their effect on our sense, on our subjective experience of them. This is a form of subject-object metaphysics AND the implication is that there will always be an epistemic gap between appearance and reality. Kant's picture says that all we can ever know is the phenomenal appearance but never the actual, pre-existing reality which causes this appearance. In this view we are forever one step removed from reality, we can never know reality. The line between what is and what we perceive can never be crossed. Pirsig, by contrast, says experience is reality and there is no such gap. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
