Andre said to mel: And Quality being the 'motivating' and 'expressive' factor, the interpretation of which depends upon one's analogues? Not sure what true or false cause have to do with this. Of course they'll admit it is silly..they would look silly not to admit this but this is because superstition has a rather negative connotation. dmb says:I'm a bit surprised at how complicated this has become. And I'm not even sure that it's all that important but what the heck. Firstly, I'd say that we're basically talking about whether or not actions are undertaken on the basis of belief but the validity of that belief is a separate question. I'd also say that post hoc explanations and justifications are also a separate question. I think that's what Andre is getting at here. The ball player might equivocate when asked about his good luck rituals because in our world superstitious behavior is a little embarrassing but I think it's safe to say that he wouldn't do it in the first place if he didn't believe in it. The belief that it might help his performance is what motivates him regardless of whether or not it actually does.
I'd also point out that there is another not so subtle shift to a separate question in the assertion that we wouldn't be able to act at all if we had to constantly examine our beliefs. Holding beliefs and examining beliefs are two different things. Most beliefs become a matter of habit and do not require examination until something goes wrong, which is to say we use the analogies automatically as long as they work. Even simple things like driving a car, riding a bike or turning a door knob will entail beliefs in that sense. Most of our beliefs work so well that they hardly merit discussion but that doesn't make them agnostic. I "believe" that riding my bike is fun, that I can go places, that it's good exercise, etc. I "believe" that jumping off the hot stove will improve my situation and there is nothing fancy or controversial about such things. But all of that is rather trivial compared to the beliefs that motivate people to do outrageous things. These are the beliefs worth discussing, no? Maybe it would be nice to return to the kind of actions that are motivated by religious beliefs. That's what Steve's new blog is about, at least in part, and that's where this discussion began. In that case we are talking about complex belief systems with a long history and profound consequences. What motivates people to subscribe to such belief systems. These are worth examining to the extent that they do or do not work. More specifically, I'd be interested in seeing someone make a case for or against my simple proposition that the inherited forms of theism don't work and have in fact become destructive in various ways. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Hotmail®:…more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
