On Mar 1, 2009, at 3:21:35 PM, "david buchanan" <[email protected]> wrote: Krimel said to Willblake2: This seems a fairly shallow view of evolution especially for someone with a Ph.D in biology. Evolution is, at least in my view, one of the most beautiful ideas ever conceived in the mind of man. It is a thread that runs through all of the disciplines of science. It has had profound impact on history, philosophy and art. Of course it is not all about struggle and those who have used it to justify manifest destiny and social Darwinism have long ago been discredited.
dmb says: Yea, I'm with Krimel on this one. It's a bit strange to hear a man with a Ph.D. in biology talk about one of the most firmly established scientific theories, one that is the central organizing principle in all the biological sciences, as if it were just a good guess. In the vernacular language, a theory is just something like a hunch. But in science a theory is as good as it ever gets. A theory is the hypothesis that has proven itself. It successfully organizes all the known data into a coherent picture and becomes the basis of all further investigations. A theory is our best provisional truth.. I mean, yes, its open to change in the sense that new data could come in that weakens it or even destroys it entirely for the sake of a better theory but as far as scientific truth goes, a working theory is the best we can do. At this point, a century and a half after its introduction, the theory of evolution is stronger and more certain than ever. There have been changes, additions and refinements since but the original theory stands. That's one of the reason it just kills me when the creationists say it's "just a theory". That kind of comment only shows that they don't really understand what a theory is or how important they are. Willblake2 says: OK, so my original point of not getting too serious or closed minded about this subjective reality that we project onto our experience through the five senses (which are extremely limited), has been lost in a discussion over whether evolution is a useful way of picturing our place, (and the place of everything, I guess), in this life. I'll accept. I brought up some of the negative sociologic results from applying this concept of evolution to our daily lives, what are the positive ones? Of course, the human race (at least one of them) is the winner if evolution is one of domination, which is good for my ego. And if I struggle enough to get to the top, I'll be at the top, woohoo! And because we have been here longer our philosophy is more evolved, or is it? According to evolution that which we see must have been better or more appropriate, otherwise it would not be here (I love those arguments). Let's look at it from the other side. That which is here is guided by nature through a process of selection. That selection process determines our present world, and all living beings are allowed to exist in there present state because they conform to the shape allowed, in the same way water conforms to a shape when poured in a cup. Any ideas on what that cup is made out of? Current theories are very one-sided as though we are evolving into some random process (this world, nature), by some random process (natural selection), making us completely random (natural?). Which means that our thoughts are random and meaningless (I know that is a jump). And of course any concept of a separate God (and I am agnostic) falls by the wayside, which doesn't bother me. But, if indeed life is viewed through this prism of chance, all philosophy is chance, as well, and we fall into an existential dilemma of truth and meaning. I've been there and it is a pretty useless existence. So, either your life has meaning or it doesn't, or maybe on good days it does. You choose your reality, others can choose theirs; this is a random process after-all, roll the dice... Willblake2 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
