On Friday 6 March 2009 8:09 AM Andre writes to Joe:
> Joe: > > As a guess I would say evolution is the framework of existence. > DQ/SQ the frameworks of the manifestation. > > to Andre's : > > So the MoQ as a 'derived conceptual framework' is not different > from the reality (DQ/SQ) it describes? > Hey Joe, thank you for responding, > > Yes firstly, Pirsig states very clearly that Dynamic good and > static good DQ/SQ 'became the basic division of his emerging > Metaphysics of Quality > (Lila, p119). > > Secondly, he sliced SQ into four levels (along an evolutionary > line) which generated three moral codes: 1; the supremacy of > biological life over inanimate nature,2: the social order over > biological life,3: intellectual order over social order and 4: > Dynamic morality a 'code of art'. (lila p167). Hi Andre and all, IMO When I question a metaphysics based on DQ/SQ manifestation, it is hard to justify slicing SQ into four levels of evolution without a corresponding division of DQ in that DQ/SQ/0 is the manifestation in each level. In the phraseology you quote Dynamic morality identifies DQ in four levels of existence. In your opinion what can create a metaphysical difference if a conceptual framework does not include the reality it describes? I am thinking of existence and manifestation. Evolution is an order in existence. Perception is a Manifestation in an accepted order: What it is, what it isn¹t, what determines the difference, like evolution? According to Pirsig, in existence there are four levels, inorganic, organic, social, intellectual. Other systems of thought use the musical scale as a model for 7 levels. IMO evolution as a hierarchical order of x levels, is different from the manifestation of the individual. Morality is order. A description of three elements for manifestation, active DQ, passive SQ, and Neutral (0) determines the value of the individual manifestation, within an order of evolution. > > What I was trying to get at in my question to dmb regards the SQ > 'part'. (Remember that Pirsig states Quality=Reality). to put > simply: SQ, (the static, stable, patterned 'part') derived from > DQ(undifferentiated, unpatterned) how does this process change SQ > (i.e static patterns of Value) into concepts? What is the 'agent' > that does this? Is it correct? What changes it into a > 'conceptualisation' of Reality. IMO the answer is an hierarchical order in existence and Social, intellectual become orders for knowledge of DQ/SQ. There is a suggestion of mystical apprehension, but I don¹t like mystical¹. I prefer an instinctive sense for order in existence. You have to be one to know one. Sex is function not order. > > Are SPOV's NOT reality? (are you and I and mountains and trees > not REAL patterns of Value?) > > I realise the difference between static and dynamic but does > 'static' make it anything measurably/conceptually LESS real? > > This is what I wanted to explore and asked if language has > anything to do with this and if so, what is language exactly > other that a social PoV? IMO once the order of evolution has more flesh perhaps your question will find an answer. + and cancel each other out, and 0 becomes an important integer for a manifestation. > > Does 'intellect' (mode of reasoning) have anything to do with > this process (Bodvar's SOL) and lead to distinctions (again!!) > such as pre-conceptual/conceptual, menu/food, map/territory. > > I thought Pirsig had wanted to do away with these dualisms? > > Dynamic Quality:undifferentiated (unpatterned) aesthetic > continuum. Static Quality: differentiated, (patterned) aesthetic > continuum. DQ/SQ does not exist in an hierarchical vacuum! The third element existence 0 (active or passive) (evolution) is the neutral necessary for manifestation. IMO. Joe > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
