Andre
12 March :
Bodvar before:
> More agreement. This is "the best of Pirsig's", but then he wavers and
> enters SOM's concept-intellect again and it sounds as if everything is
> ideas (look to annotation 97 in "Lila's Child".
Andre:
> Ok Bodvar, here's the annotation:
> Annotation #97:
> Within the MOQ, the IDEA that static patterns of value start with the
> inorganic level is considered a good IDEA. But the MOQ itself doesn't
> start before sentience. The MOQ, like science, starts with human
> experience. Remember the early talk in ZMM about Newton's Law of
> Gravity? Scientific laws without people to write them are a scientific
> impossibility. (Robert Pirsig)
> You are going too fast for me Bodvar: WHERE in this annotation does
> Pirsig 'enter SOM's concept-intellect again' and WHAT exactly 'sounds
> as if everything is ideas'?
Pirsig presupposes that "intellect" is the realm of ideas it is in
SOM) and that the MOQ is an intellectual pattern. But if "the
inorganic level coming first" is an idea, then "MOQ doesn't start
before sentience" is an idea too. And I can't see how the "Quality
Reality" escapes being an idea .... Can you?
In the SOL interpretation the intellectual level is the total SOM i.e.
the subject/object aggregate. Its "O" part (objective over the
subjective) was dominant when Pirsig wrote ZAMM and the
Newton example was meant to undermine it. But the MOQ has no
affinity for SOM's "S" ("subjective over objective") part. Why I
allowed myself to put "Quality" in Gravity's place to show that there
was no Quality before Pirsig. I.e. no Quality outside the MOQ.
The problems for orthodox MOQ is the intense wish to make the
SOM - MOQ transition a smooth one: An adjustment inside the
idea-intellectual level, and that PhDs and academical laurels will
follow. This can't be done and Pirsig knew when he calls it an in-
out-turn, meaning a leap from "intellect" as an idea container to
intellect as SOM. Adapting the former as MOQ's 4th. level spells
disaster, while the latter creates great clarity.
Why Pirsig in spite of this goes on invoking disaster is for posterity
to ponder. In its time, while DMB was still a thinker, he doubted
this and other impossible "Lila's Child" annotations, (look into the
archives for the "What came first" thread around 2003?) but then
Paul Turner turned (!) his head.
Bodvar
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