Platt to Andre: Yes, we are static patterns of Quality. But we are not DQ. DQ is something we perceive and, under some circumstances, respond to.
Andre: Hi Platt, I like this beginning. It points to something that has bothered me for a while, the resolution of which needs to be thrashed out here because if we don't, the MoQ will be just another philosophical brick in the wall, or just another philosophical picture on the wall. And it ain't. I'll try to explain it below but cannot promise many quotes. It has to do with the interpretation of these quotes. Platt: Otherwise, how to explain: "This, Phaedrus thought, was why little children are usually quicker to PERCEIVE Dynamic Quality than old people, why beginners are usually quicker than experts, why primitive people are sometimes quicker than those of 'advanced' cultures." (Lila, 9) Andre: My interpretation of this quote is that Pirsig argues for LESS intellectualisations (conceptualisations,rationalisations, evaluations,) as is the case with old people and 'advanced' cultures since these only obstruct the perception of DQ. I interpret the 'perception of' to mean 'have feeling for'/ 'be open to'. Remember Zen's Beginners Mind? Remember Pirsig's value traps? One of them is value rigidity. Children do not have this (they haven't gone through the hypnotists educational factory yet). "Primitive ' societies do not have this either. That's why they are probably called 'primitive'.(by educated anthropologists). Value rigidity..'is an inability to revalue what one sees because of commitment to previous values' (ZMM, p304). Old people and advanced cultures have these values. Children, unconsciously have/see/feel only one value and that is Dynamic. (That is why they are little, selfish exhausting, loveable bastards sometimes!). Platt: "The patterns of life are constantly evolving in RESPONSE to something 'better' than that which these laws have to offer." (Lila, 11) Andre: Agree, and Pirsig is very consistent in his analysis and exposition of this. 'All life is a migration of static patterns of quality toward Dynamic Quality (Lila, p143). And how do they do this? Read his analysis of what happens at the quantum level; 'Particles 'prefer' to do what they do. An individual particle is not absolutely committed to one predictable behaviour' (p107). Now read p106: 'Lila is a judge. That's who lay here beside him tonight: a judge of hundreds of millions of year's standing...' Lila judges, not in the sense of passing a verdict but in terms of picking and choosing...who is/what is better? She shows preference! She responds and it is in this response that DQ is experienced. Added to this comes the 'mystical' component upon which a large part of the MoQ is based (Interview Pirsig in On the Road DVD). Dharma is equated with Quality itself and on p 391 Pirsig writes: 'It [dharma] is sometimes used as a purely moral concept and stands for right or virtuous conduct which leads to some form of good as a result'. In this context we are all composed of patterns of dharma (SQ) responding to DQ. But this relationship is not one of responding from 'in here' to 'out there'.This dualism does not exist in the MoQ. It is DQ/SQ. The only 'difference is, the one is unpatternd (DQ) the other is patterned (SQ). The one exists in the other and the other exists in the one. Platt: As for DQ being a force, like energy, one need only refer to such statements as: "Biological evolution can be seen as a process by which weak DYNAMIC FORCES at the subatomic level DISCOVER strategems for overcoming huge static inorganic forces at a superatomic level." (Lila, 11) and "Natural selection is Dynamic Quality AT WORK." (Lila, 11) "Although Dynamic Quality, the Quality of freedom, CREATES THIS WORLD in which we live, these patterns of static quality, the quality of order, preserve our world." (Lila, 9) Andre: Absolutely and there is no contradiction here. Pirsig merely reinforces the workings at the quantum level which manifest themselves with greater variety and freedom at subsequent levels; i.e exercising preference and, when successful, exploiting and 'latching' the advance gained. This is how the world has been created. Platt: Pirsig makes it clear through the story of the brujo and in other places that it is the individual responding to the creative force of DQ that is currently driving social and intellectual evolution. Andre: Yes, and following on from the above when talking about Lila: 'There's something ferociously Dynamic going on with her (p165-6): the same thing was happening with the brujo (his 'stange' behaviour) and Pirsig says:' He was just following some vague sense of 'betterness' that couldn't have been defined if he had wanted to'. This 'sense' of betternes was 'sensed' inside used in the sense of dharma and Quality. (DQ/SQ) Platt: If someone has a contrary view, they ought to be able to support it with the evidence of quotations from Pirsig's writings after ZMM when he discovered the existence of Dynamic and static quality within the broader category of Quality. Andre: And this is the problem Platt: It is not Quality/ MoQ. NO!!! '...Dynamic good and static good...became the basic division of his emerging Metaphysics of Quality. 'Not subject and object but static and Dynamic is the basic division of reality'. (p119). And the subject/ object became static patterns of value, and Dq 'is a referring term for immediate experience' i.e. DQ (McWatt,1999) No more 'ins and outs', pre-concept/concept, abstract/concrete. NO!!! DQ/SQ! Platt: As you say, Andre, DQ is not something "out there." It is part of the Quality experience. But it not part of everyday experience. It's rare and wonderful: "It was applied to manifestations of skill, fortune, blessing, luck, to any wondrous occurrence. It connoted any phenomenon that transcended the run of everyday experience. In other words, 'Dynamic Quality.' " (Lila, 9) Andre: No qualms here Platt. Some profound/ religious/ mystical experiences do not occur every day. And I do not rely on those to get me out of bed every morning...but sometimes...you just never will know. If you do not agree with any or all of this Platt ..I'll hear. And now it is time for a beer! IMHO Andre Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
