Hello everyone
---------------------------------------- > Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 23:07:21 +0000 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MD] Quality-as-pre-conceptual/MOQ as conceptual. > > " I see today more clearly than when I wrote the SODV > paper that the key to integrating the MOQ with science is > through philosophic idealism, which says that objects grow > out of ideas, not the other way around." > (RMP, LC, 105n) > > > Does anyone see a good way to reconcile this quote with the > MoQ view that each level comes out of the level below it? Dan: In the MOQ, everything is a concept. That's why it's so important to understand the part in ZMM concerning gravity. There is no such thing as gravity but that which we give a name. That said, if we look to annotation #67: "...Bohr's 'observation' and the MOQ's 'quality event' are the same, but the contexts are different. The difference is rooted in the historic chicken-and-egg controversy over whether matter came first and produces idea, or ideas come first and produce what we know of matter. The MOQ says that Quality comes first, which produces ideas, which produce what we know as matter. The scientific community that has produced Complementarity, almost invariably presumes that matter comes first and produces ideas. However, as if to further the confusion, the idea that matter comes first is a high quality idea! I think Bohr would say that philosophic idealism (i.e. ideas before matter) is a viable philosophy since complementarity allows multiple contradictory views to exist." (Robert Pirsig, LILA'S CHILD) Dan comments: I would say that the MOQ allows contradictory views to coexist since although the levels are discrete, they operate all at the same time. Craig: > Are organic spovs on the 1st level not objects or ideas > not intellectual spovs on the 4th? Dan: In the MOQ, inorganic patterns of value are not things in themselves (TiTs). They correspond to objective, external reality but exist only in our imagination as per ZMM. Thank you for a great couple questions. I hope my anwsers are of value. Always a pleasure, Dan _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ SkyDrive: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
