Hi Marsha,
That doesn't sound very much like Emptiness to me,
it sounds very full. It's just a semantic confusion on my
part. "Empty of inherent existence"(?). Does
it exist?
Here is some of what the Tao says about emptiness, a translation I'm
afraid (and different translation give me different feelings).
>From section 4:
"The Tao is an empty vessel; it is used but never filled
Oh, unfathomable source of ten thousand things"
(ten thousand things is just Lao Tzu way of saying
everything, it is translated differently elsewhere, as "all
things")
>From section 11:
"Thirty spokes share the wheel's hub;
It is the center hole that makes it useful.
Shape the clay into a vessel;
It is the space within that makes its useful.
Cut doors and windows for a room;
It is the holes which make it useful.
Therefore profit comes from what is there;
Usefulness from what is not there."
This is of course a metaphor, which I understand better than
logical words for spiritual stuff. I have used the Tao for over 30 years
for spiritual understanding, and it is still my main source. I am hoping
that MoQ is a western system I can use for understanding.
Do you have a metaphor for your kind of Emptiness?
Thanks,
Willblake2
On Apr 18, 2009, at 1:59:18 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
Hello Will,
No, not like the inside of a bowl, not that kind of empty, not empty
space, but empty of inherent existence. Andre's description of DQ
works well for how I understand Emptiness, "It is the continually
changing flux of immediate experience...unpatterned, undefined."
I do not know very much about the Tao.
Marsha
At 03:16 PM 4/18/2009, you wrote:
>Hi Marsha,
>
>Emptiness is fine with me, if I understand what you mean. The
>inside of a bowl is empty
>as the Tao would say.
>
>Willblake2
>
>On Apr 17, 2009, at 12:24:48 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Will,
>
>I didn't know anything of Buddhism until I read Nagarjuna's
>MKK. Emptiness seems intuitively right to me. Since then I've read
>plenty more and my intuitive attraction just gets stronger. The
>Buddhist traditions, the Four Noble Truths, the Eightfold Path, are
>beautiful and I try to follow as best I can, but it is the logic that
>has bitten me. I see Quality synonymous with Emptiness, and
>experience as primary.
>
>
>Marsha
>
>
>
>At 01:43 AM 4/17/2009, you wrote:
> >HI Marsha,
> >
> >My understanding and experience of Buddhism, is the release from
> >clinging. When the wind blows, I feel cold. To a Buddhist, the
> >wind blows right through him. The most recent Buddha was obsessed
> >with suffering and wanted to be released from it. Some of my most
> >meaningful learning and experiences have come through suffering; I
> >welcome it, knowing it is temporary .
> >
> >Buddhist live on a flat line, I live on a wave, up and down, yin and
> >yang. I often feel that Buddhist are the ultimate escapists, like
> >heroin addicts, who only want to experience peace and joy. I
> >suppose this is OK for some, but is it real? Buddhism is all about
> >doing things the "right" way, as the fourth noble truth
> >teaches. Many that I know are truly happy with this kind of
> >discipline, and often say they are enlightened, which I am sure they
> >are. But we are all enlightened. Our spiritual awakening came when
> >we entered this world.
> >
> >I am not quite sure what Quality has to do with Buddhism, at least
> >as I understand it. For me it is more like Taoism.
> >
> >I love Cervantes. I live in a polytheistic world, serpents and saints..
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Willblake2
> >
> >
> >On Apr 15, 2009, at 11:04:35 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >Greetings Willblake2,
> >
> >What do we know and how do we know it?
> >
> >You are correct, scientist, philosopher and theologian want to answer
> >these questions. The only concept I haven't been able to debunk is
> >the Buddhist's Emptiness, and the MOQ reigns supreme because it
> >includes emptiness as DQ. But I, like Don Quixote, find all these
> >other concepts both noble and fearsome, heathens and wizards and
> >serpents of sin!
> >
> >I am I, Don Quixote,
> >The Lord of La Mancha,
> >My destiny calls and I go,
> >And the wild winds of fortune
> >Will carry me onward,
> >Oh whithersoever they blow.
> >Whithersoever they blow,
> >Onward to glory I go!
> >
> >It is all interesting, and I too love thinking it through as best I
> >can. For the moment I live on the Isle of the Blessed. But as I
> >have been listening to all these lectures on the history of
> >scientific theory (science wars) I am wondering how things would look
> >in the modern times if Quality and the MOQ had their day in the
> >sun. It is time...
> >
> >Daffodils to you, Will.
> >
> >
> >Marsha
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >At 09:59 PM 4/15/2009, you wrote:
> > >Hi Marsha,
> > >
> > >Actually it is my own closed minded opinion. Stewart is just a
> > >mathematician. I don't see any difference between science,
> > >philosophy, and religion. They all try to construe reality
> > >through labels. We try to believe that those labels are real,
> > >and somehow more than just nerve connections firing in patterns.
> > >My mind is closed to thinking that perhaps all these labels
> > >are very different from each other, and represent
> > >alternatives. My opinion is that they are all the same. I don't
> > >think I can label one as good and the other as bad. I label them
> > >as useful and enjoyable to me, or not.
> > >
> > >It is fun, however, to create sides and argue the merits of one
> > >over the other. That is all that I am doing here.
> > >
> > >Your posts are a joy in my day!
> > >
> > >Willblake2
> > >
> > >
> > >On Apr 14, 2009, at 11:27:14 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > >Greetings Will,
> > >
> > >Oh right, that would be Ian Stewart's opinion. There are lots of
> > >opinion. This is how the conflict is labeled, but my mind is
> open. Is yours?
> > >
> > >
> > >Marsha
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >At 02:12 AM 4/15/2009, you wrote:
> > >
> > > >Hi,
> > > >
> > > >Science Wars? Science, philosophy, religion, they are all on the
> > same side.
> > > >It is all part of mass hysteria. Science and philosophy and religion
> > > >are all in it together. They walk hand in hand encouraging their
> > prisoners.
> > > >They love for it to be considered a war, because one of them
has to win
> > > >and they don't care which one; they are all the same. Everybody
> > is infected
> > > >with some kind of thought virus of one kind or another, they are
> > > >passing it along
> > > >helplessly to the glee of the infector.
> > > >
> > > >You need a vaccination. Stop pretending its a battle. You
know better..
> > > >
> > > >Willblake2
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Apr 14, 2009, at 2:51:04 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >Greetings,
> > > >
> > > >Interesting that the Science Wars didn't take place until the 1990s,
> > > >and LILA was written prior to 1991. It seems probably that RMP lead
> > > >the way in the attack against Science. Now this is going to be
> > > >interesting an interesting area to study.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Marsha,
> > > >the sophist.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >..
> > > >_____________
> > > >
> > > >Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the
> > stars............
> > > >..
> > > >..
> > > >
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> > >
> > >..
> > >_____________
> > >
> > >Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the
> stars............
> > >..
> > >..
> > >
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> >..
> >_____________
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> >Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the
stars............
> >..
> >..
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>..
>_____________
>
>Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars...........
>..
>..
>
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