> [Krimel]: > Preference and intention are so integral to our nature that we > see them in everything. ... > Any philosophy that attempts to imbue the universe with purpose > and intent is just regressing to the intellectual equivalent of > sucking its thumb.
[Ham] Exactly. So the precept of purpose and intent is "our nature", not that of the universe. In other words, morality is subjective, and the meaning of existence is realized in the value sensibility of the individual. [Krimel] Well, sort of but not really, morality is by its very nature social. Morality is about how we ought to act in relation to others. I would say in this sense morality is entirely objective but I see objectivity as being what independent observers can agree about. Michael Shermer makes the case the morality was not an issue in the environment that produced our species. Before the last ice age humans mostly lived in small bands of about 150 people. Interpersonal interactions were individually negotiated within the community and were informal. Formal moral codes and laws arose with the advent of cities to reduce uncertainty in the behaviors of strangers. Likewise, "meaning" which I would say is reduction in uncertainty, is often collectively negotiated. [Ham] This is precisely what I mean by being-aware. Awareness in proprietary to the individual subject. WE are the universe's evaluators. WE are the agents who bring value into a relational world as evolving objects and events. It is our appraisal, our judgments, that determine what is moral. The basis of any morality system is the collective aggregate of individual value preferences. This is why subjectivity cannot be dismissed in a value-based philosophy. [Krimel] I agree for the most part but would emphasize that what you capitalize above is WE. It is our collective evaluations that matter and this is something we adopt individually but not something that individuals create individually for themselves. [Ham] That's too bad, because Pirsig's "philosophical thumb" is what we're all sucking on in the life experience. Only it's our realization that value lies beyond the experience of otherness, that it's the "ultimate reality" from which we are estranged at creation. Value is essential to our finite being-aware. It is our vital link to Absolute Essence. [Krimel] I see no need to bring in anything Absolute or Ultimate nor do I think we are especially estranged. Nor do I think that the universe is a creation. I think that a sense of what causes harm and what promotes life is "essential" to survival. But other than that, sure. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
