Marsha, Dan, William Blake and Mark Smith. To start with Marsha's of May 26,
> > Time and change have a relationship, yes? What does it actually mean to > > state that everything is always in a state of change? Everything! I'm > > thinking of the water analogy: If everything is water, and there is > > nothing that is not water, then there is no meaning to water, for there > > is no way of distinguishing a difference between water and nonwater. > > Seems if you translate that into change, then what humans have actually > > defined as change is illusion. And if our definition of change is an > > illusion, how can anything be conceived of as constant, as in > > Einstein's 'C', when everything is changing? Against what is it > > measured? Can you untangle this mess between water, change and time? Agree, the "everything is ..." postulate is stale and that goes for "Reality is Quality" too. Pirsig makes it sound as that is the revolution and the MOQ some secondary afterthought, but the two are inexticably connected. Markhsmith or Willblake (can't you use a name instead of these cryptic e-mail abbreviations?) responded to Marsha's above. > If Einstein is correct, then everything is energy. Everything is > transforming into something else continuously. That is change. But > does anything really change? Physics states that no energy is ever > lost or created; there is conservation. So at some level nothing > changes, always the same energy. At our level, Things to seem to > change. An illusion? I suppose, as much as everything else is. The > word is confusing. If everything is an illusion then so is that > statement. Don't believe anything I write (not even my telling you > not to believe anything I write). Einstein revolutionized physics by his "Energy Metaphysics" where the basic axiom was "Matter is Energy" (E=mc2) but this does not say that matter and energy are identical, there is an internal schism between dynamic energy (released in nuclear bombs)and static energy (matter as we know it) And this is what all is about in his "metaphysics", the said equation contains the schism. This pertains to Pirsig's (silly) "Quality as Dynamic and the MOQ as static". The "Quality=Reality" postulate is part and parcel of the MOQ, because it does not mean a thing without the static counterpoint. To speak of a Quality independent of the MOQ is both impossible and counterproductive, as if speaking of Energy independent of the said dynamic/static context. Thanks Mr.Smith for this excellent metaphor. NB One thing however, the physical world is MOQ's "inorganic level" and MOQ's dynamic/static schism has nothing to do with energy's two forms. All inorganic patterns be it ordinary matter or forces (gravity, electromagnetism ... whatever) are "static inorganic patterns". > So the water analogy. Everything in this world are like waves on > an ocean. They appear from nowhere on the surface, and disappear. > A constant flux of waves, just like matter, always changing shapes. Big, > small. I'll bet you have some of the electrons I had a while ago. They > are yours now, keep them for a while. The waves are created from the > great ocean, arising from it returning to it, but the water is always > there to create new ones. Does the wave try to survive as long as it can? > I don't think so, it just is. Water and (water) waves is a very good analogy to illustrate the DQ/SQ relationship (not wind waves however, these may be likened to the various static patterns) but perhaps "standing waves" as in a river. Or - better - electromagnetic waves because these propagates in no known medium at all and shows the superfluity of Quality after the MOQ ... and the impossibility of it outside the MOQ. > The speed of light is constant, because time disappears at that speed. > Time gets slower and slower the faster you go, until poof! we are at > the speed of light. Hard to change things with no time. If two beams of light meet, then the relative speed between the two must be twice that of light .... or?. I'm a bit rusty on Relativity and don't remember, no trap. Bodvar "Bo" Skutvik Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
