Marsha, I think you are right. The personal experience of a memory is a direct experience. One is living in the memory which is happening now. We are directly experiencing the memory in the present.
Maybe the question below should read "Who is the Me who knows me". since we are fond of capitalizing for effect. Does it make sense now? Mark On May 28, 2009, at 11:25:21 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: Mark, Knows what? Yesterday's news? Personal experience is direct experience, not the story constructed from yesterday's news. Who is the me who knows me? That doesn't sound right. Is that a question that can be answered? Marsha At 09:18 PM 5/28/2009, you wrote: >Krishnamurti's long winded psychological series of words are fine >for the objective >description of the "me" as third person, but it does not answer my >question, which Platt rephrased: >"Who is the I that knows me?" >What is it that makes "me" a personal experience? >Anybody could be looking through my eyes, but it's me. > >On May 28, 2009, at 4:37:47 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >More based on the Discussion Between J. Krishnamurti and David Bohm >in The Ending of Time: > > > "Once again one returns back to the 'wrong turning' that >humankind took a long time ago. One wants to get a firm grip on the >substantive reality of the wrong turning, as such an understanding >alone will enable one to move out to it. The fact of life is that >there are two realities or two dimensions to one's 'substantive >reality formation'. In the first dimension, one comes upon a >physical, material, biological reality which includes neuro-functions >of one's reality formation as a static formation, that is perceived >by me as the 'me'. The second reality or dimension to one's >substantive reality formation is the psychological structure of the >'me', which is a sum-total of the entire content of the movement of >one's consciousness. There are layers upon layers of psychological >indentations on one's mind screen, which are seen by the mind as >intrinsic to its reality formation. And, that includes all of one's >inherited psychological traits, evolutionary memories since the dawn >of civilization or earlier; tribal, national, religious, cultural, >educational, traditional influences that have gone into the shaping >of the 'me'; and with all that, generating a structure of >psychological attitudes and modes of reckoning, pecking order and >behavior, inculcating within the 'me' a frame of motivating factors >which causes the reality formation to move the way it does. This >psychological dimension of the reality formation is the one, which >lies at the core of one's thought structure. One looks upon all of >this as the real 'me' in the field of all my relationships in which >one actually lives in one's daily life. The layer upon layer of all >the experiences one has gathered as knowledge and memory, all the >psychological impulses one has gathered as one's morality norms, all >the concepts, theories upon theories that one has built up >individually or collectively, go into the formation of various strata >and sub-stratas of human consciousness, and one looks upon all of >that as the 'me'. It is another matter that most of the time, these >stratas and sub-stratas are in conflict with each other. But to the >'me', all of these are the sacred cow, as one looks upon that as the >'me'. All of that is the content of one's consciousness, and the sum >total of all that is the 'me'. It is another matter that all these >stratas and sub -stratas of one's consciousness are, in fact, an >agglomeration of thought, which the intellect has very carefully >built up into a structure. But the 'me' in the'me' does not consider >it to be a 'thought structure'. The intellect has metamorphosed that >thought structure, as another expression of thought, and the thought >looks upon that as the 'real me', and with that, the real 'me' which >consists of first dimension, i.e., the physical, the material, the >neuro-physical, and the controller of all that--the wholesome >mind--have got relegated from the screen of the intellect, as >secondary. The motor power of this bundle of consciousness or this >thought structure, emanates from much of those thoughts, which the >psycho-neurological aggregates has seen and converted sometime in the >past as thought of pleasure, pain, gain, loss, fame, ignominy, >praise, criticism, and all that. In this way, this thought >functioning as the engine of the motivators, is now its powering >structure." > > > > > >. >_____________ > >The self is a thought-flow of ever-changing, interrelated and >interconnected, inorganic, biological, social and intellectual, >static patterns of value responding to Dynamic Quality. > >. >. > > > >Moq_Discuss mailing list >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >Archives: >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > >Moq_Discuss mailing list >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >Archives: >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ . _____________ The self is a thought-flow of ever-changing, interrelated and interconnected, inorganic, biological, social and intellectual, static patterns of value responding to Dynamic Quality. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
