On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 11:33 AM, blue-jay maple <[email protected]>wrote:
> > > Nick previously: > > > Fine. Get stabbed to death. "Indulge" as you say. > > John: > > Well Nick, if somebody comes at me with a knife, I have the freedom to > > defend myself. I also have choices about the kind of places I visit and > to > > tell you the truth, I usually choose places where people don't attack me. > > Nick: > Good. Then why the whole choice of being coerced or not as you put to > "indulge" > with. > I don't see what you're getting at here. My point was that even if people try to coerce me, they will not succeed if I make the right choices in the moment. If one of my choices in the moment a guy comes at me with a knife includes a 12 gauge at my side, then I ain't gettin' coerced anywhere bucko. John: > > I know you can come up with all kinds of hypothetical situations - but > none > > of them apply to me so why should I be interested? > > Nick: > Ok. This was vague. Ok, an example of a hypothetical situation. You say to me, Suppose my neighbor has an atom bomb.... and he says to me, "If you don't get your dog off my lawn, I'm gonna drop an atom bomb on your house." That's just one of many hypothetical situations you could try and use to get me to see that I'm subject to coercion. The problem is, I get along fine with my neighbor and he doesn't have an atom bomb and even if my neighbor DID have an atom bomb, he would be afraid to detonate it right next door... so you could come up with a bunch of different hypothetical situations that would coerce me, but none of them would fit either and after a while we'd realize that you are just playing games with your own fantasyland terrors that have nothing to do with me so WHY SHOULD I BE INTERESTED??? More clear I hope? > > Nick previously: > > > Ok? I think I realize you're still alive or who else is typing this if > not > > > John. And I'm glad nothing has been taken from you. Taxes are coerced > from you > > > though. > > > john: > > Not true. Taxes are built into the economic structure of the society I > > choose to partake. That's not coercion. > > Nick: > You can choose all you want. You can love to pay taxes. But you still > HAVE to cause > if you don't violation of liberty happens. > No that is simply not true at all. I don't have to pay taxes. I can grow my own flour and I can make my own shelter and I can stay away from society and never interact at all. "I can choose all I want" means I am not subject to coercion. duh. Nick previously: > > You ever buy bread? If you don't pay the taxes, even if you want to > pay > > them or > > John: > > I've gone years and years without paying either property or income taxes. > > So far, no police. > > Nick: > Well if you HAVE to pay them, if you actually own property and have a job, > then > you haven't gotten caught yet. > If I have to pay them? I thought you said I did. I do own property and as a self-employed individual with more than a few kids, the govt ends up paying me more than I pay them. Property taxes are an on and off thing. You can put them off for years and years and rarely does the county get around to doing much about it. > John: > > Aggressive is more about attitude than baseball bats. If I was holding a > > bat, it would be as a perch for the birdies. Things don't kill people, > > people kill people using things. > > Nick: > Yeah and? What's your point? So people can use baseball bats to kill > other > people and that's called murder if initiated. > My point was that you have an aggressive attitude. Baseball bats got nothing to do with it. > > > > > Nick previously: > > > Well it's not fanatical for people to not want others to murder them. > It's > > > quite a real life event. > > John: > > Nick, if I spend every waking moment contemplating hypothetical > murders... > > then I'd say that would be a bit fanatical. Wouldn't you? > > Nick: > Strawman. Going off topic. Your whole "fanatical" bit was emotive to > begin with > having no rational basis. > Really? I didn't realize that. Thanks for pointing it out. Although it leads to another thought - do you think emotions have "no rational basis"? And if so, are you married? And if so, have you ever pointed this out to your wife? And if so, has she aggressively coerced you into unconsciousness with a frying pan lately? > > John: > > So it is a matter of degree. I don't worry about being murdered and here > I am, not > > murdered. Not a real life event at all, in fact. It's a tv show that > > you've absorbed into your brain. I'd feel sorry for you, but hey, you > get > > to make your choices like everybody. > > Nick: > John, murder happens. People get killed. Your a sadistic vile person > thinking that's not > real. You've been watching too much TV. Do like to watch the blood drip? > lol sick > > > Nick > Well it'd be pretty difficult for me to watch too much tv, since I haven't had one since 1983, and I don't see how refusing to dwell upon violence that others choose to dwell upon makes *me* vile and sadistic. But with your careful choice of words there, I am a bit worried about you. John -- ------------ Self is simply Choice. ------------ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
