bravo andre we can't pin it all on bob here mate. if the reader is ready they will get 'it' - i did. seems you did too. zamm changed my life, or rather my life changed when i was ready to understand zamm (the 2nd reading, which postdated the first by about 5/6 years).
btw 'cognitive dissonance' might be an apt term for what we are talking about in holding opposing viewpoints at the same time - sort of a koan effect? bob's work is so pragmatic and broad in scope... i guess nearly everyone gets something of value from it...something that resonates with them and what they already know. hence its massive sales. to be able to integrate, incorporate the *totality* of what bob is getting at is something different. for this you have to understand why bob went insane. he stepped out. he had a look at social reality, the mythos, from outside of it, in order to fulfil his quest...bit of a price to pay there. psychedelics, meditation, yoga, madness, art....all these can help you experience an egoless state. this is where pirsig's work is groundtruthed. without some sort of direct regular prolonged experience of quality (egolessness), receptivity to 'quality' diminishes. instead the concepts we have invented to analogise this direct experience usurp the prememinence of the aesthetic. this is squareness and it leads to nihilism. modern society tries to stop the individual from (intellectually) transcending conceptual reality by continually using psychological methods developed by edward bearnays (grandson of freud i think): the father of marketing and advertising. by appealing to the irrational instincts (id) the individual remains unconscious of the manipulation. in this way the behaviour of large numbers of people can be predictably affected. fight or flight response: stress, anxiety. keep people busy, occupied, worried, in debt, anxious, competitive, insecure etc and they will not be able to find their way through the confusing tangle of ego driven concerns, especially when their ego is being pissed about by the shadowy id. but in the end it is always rather simple. if u want to get in touch with reality - if you want peace, want to disconnect from the matrix, just do nothing.....for a while. > From: Andre Broersen <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [MD] Pirsig and Socratic method (a question for Ant) > To: [email protected] > Received: Thursday, 18 June, 2009, 7:08 PM > Anthony on reading Lila and ZMM: > In other words, one should not be seeking to arrive at just > recognising > Dynamic Quality but to a more profound understanding: ?The > teaching of > emptiness is actually an affirmation of the dynamic > interconnectedness of > all things.? > > Andre: > Hi All, if I can make this a sort of follow-up on my > previous post > concerning a literary device used in ZMM (The best way to > learn something is > to teach it) in Lila Pirsig uses the 'paradox' to a large > extent as a divice > to reach a more profound understanding e.g. Does Lila have > Quality? > Mind/Matter, Determinism/Free Will, Science/Religion etc. > > The virtue of the paradox, the reason that they 'work' is > because they > reconcile opposites. But to do this one has to transcend > logic...at a level > 'above' intellect (are you listening Bodvar?). > Arriving at a deeper meaning, thereby improving the quality > of our > consciousness is to reach an understanding that appears to > contradict logic. > To wit; one reaches an intuitive way of understanding, an > understanding that > is difficult to pin down. It is like trying to explain a > good poem,painting > or piece of music. Try to put your finger on it and it > slips away or you > destroy it in the process of explanation. (This, I believe, > is what in a SOM > world is designated as 'mystical' understanding ?). > > This is the way Pirsig lays down the evolutionary MoQ > 'levels' seemingly > independent /antagonistic but at a deeper level > complementary. This seeming > coexistence of opposites at the inter and intra level, this > 'play' with the > Tao's Yin/Yang and Niels Bohr's fundamentally scientific > statement > "Opposites are not contradictory but complementary", this > is where our > consciousness must move towards. We need to transcend > intellect (i.e. > rationality,logic) to reach a far deeper, intuitive > understanding of the > universe and thereby ourselves. > > We must tap into this pond which is full of waves and words > learning that > it's about the waves and not the words. These ,I suppose, > are the steps > toward enlightenment.Not the words but the waves.Pointing > to the great > Eastern insights of All is One and Thou Art That. > > Question is: Has Mr. Pirsig succeeded in this? There appear > to be a few > opposing views as to determine the extent to which he has > done so. > I don't really know. I suffer from word limit but try to > keep my mind open. > > IMHO > > For what it is worth. > Andre > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Access Yahoo!7 Mail on your mobile. Anytime. Anywhere. Show me how: http://au.mobile.yahoo.com/mail Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
