Hi Marsha, I think Bo has an attitude about Eastern thought. It won't do any good to try to convince him otherwise.
I'm glad to see that others have a few more dimensions to their travels through the high country. Cheers, Willblake2 On Sep 22, 2009, at 3:11:19 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: From: MarshaV <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MD] The MOQ/Zen relationship. Date: September 22, 2009 3:11:19 AM PDT To: [email protected] Bo, It seems to me the Buddhist use intellect and meditation of penetrate the illusionary nature of self (subject) and phenomenon (objects). That is moving beyond a subject/object world-view. Marsha -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of MarshaV Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:31 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] The MOQ/Zen relationship. Greetings Bo, So the MoQ is a metaphysics appropriate for the Western experience only? Is that what you are stating? Marsha -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:07 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] The MOQ/Zen relationship. Marsha and Group 21 Sep. you wrote: > I certainly understand you wanting to keep religion separate, and it > does seem the mystic experience is often linked to religious > traditions, but it doesn't have to be so. I've read that even the > Dalai Lama, in his efforts to bring together East and West, has warned > to be attentive to what is insight/wisdom and what is cultural > tradition, which are often entangled. The Buddhist traditions are > beneficial because they are not theistic, and their purpose is to > bring enlightenment (however that word may be understood or > misunderstood) to benefit all. I started my post by saying that religion as something defying reason only occurred after "reason" i.e. the intellectual level. And I'm afraid this your introducing Dalai Lama brings MOQ into the murky Buddhist waters I want to "save it from" - sorry for being so implacable. He speaks about "insight-wisdom versus cultural tradition, and "insight- wisdom" may match "what defies reason" but "cultural tradition" in Tibet is not our Western REASON. Tibetan cultural tradition was/is all about achieving the mystical experience while Western Reason is all about preventing such which is dismissed as hysteria, mental illness .. etc. Back to the MOQ. Before Reason - i.e. intellect - the social reality ruled and there was no S/O (mystic/reason) distinction (why it was regarded as Quality itself by Pirsig) Yet, the MOQ is not a return to the pre S/O (social reality) it's a reunion of Subject/Object beyond intellect. So, I do not particularly want to involve Orientalism because this may - as Pirsig and this discussion has touched on - be a culture that has gone through the intellectual stage, but not developed it into a SOM, before going on to a Quality-like stage.This creates OUR East/West chasm. Dalai Lama may understand the West, but we only sees "mysticism" over there. Yours profoundly Bodvar Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
