Bo, It is from you that I learn all about the MOQ.? My posts enable me
to do that.? I wonder about this thing called intelligence.? The way an organism evolves, through trial and error, always trying to best meet the needs of the environment.? Is this a lower intelligence than what you are writing about.? The intelligence of a mountain to shape itself in a way to maximize it's existence.? Is this what your are talking about.? The way in which leaves grow extremely logical patterns to enable the absorption of energy and transfer of water, is this the intelligence you are talking about.? The way in which the neurons of the human brain interconnect to form patterns in response to the environment and enable communication between individuals for common purposes, is this the intelligence.? Is the intelligence of a society somehow different from the intelligence of a herd of wildebeest on the Tanzanian plains?? Don't think so. Human intelligence is nothing compared to the intelligence of the subatomic world in its ability to create, nothing in comparison to the ever evolving cosmology of the universe. Don't get fooled by what you call human intelligence.? It is governed by very subtle fluctuations of ions in the brain. Totally out of your control. Perhaps a class in neurobiology will bring you down to this earth. All these levels of increasing self-importance.? All that I hear is the Ego.? Perhaps a class in Freudian psychology will put you at ease. Then again, it's good to think that somehow you are better than a rock, if that is what you need to give purpose. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, Sep 24, 2009 2:03 am Subject: Re: [MD] The MOQ/Zen relationship. William Blake the Second or Mark Smith 22 Sep. you wrote: > Interesting Bodvar that you would put REASON on such a > pedestal.??It?implies?that?you?are?fully?committed?to your reason, as > being somehow above other forms of thought. The 4th level is MOQ's highest and IMO "intellect is the ability to distinguish between what's objective and what's subjective (the S/O distinction) and - finally - that this is REASON or RATIONALITY, so no wonder I put it very high, only subordinate to the overarching DQ/SQ configuration. There is no "thinking" (as mind-patterns) in the MOQ because there is no MIND (different from matter. There is INTELLIGENCE which is used by the biological level for its survival purpose and by the social level for its common cause purpose and - finally - by intellect for it rational purpose. That intellect's purpose is best goes without saying. > It is a manner of thinking that creates a reality, but it is far from > the only one. Take your reason to the source?of?its > foundation,?and?then?go?beyond?if?you?can.??You?may?find > that?this?thing?called?REASON?is?simply?a?convention?for > communicating?and?existing?as?a?group,?nothing?more. I know you try to "improve my ways" but don't worry dear Mark I'm not fooled by Reason/Intellect/SOM, my focus is at the MOQ from where the level context is seen. > Perhaps?you?are?so?entrenched?that?you?can?not?imagine > anything?outside?your?reason,?your?interconnected?neurons > which?create?patterns?from?your?interaction?with?the?world. > It is nothing Glorious and Godlike. ?But perhaps it is > best to stay that way, otherwise others may think you > as mad. This is what I get for promoting the MOQ - not the trendy newageish nonsense that you obviously subscribes to. OK you may be a nice guy, but try to learn some more about the MOQ. Bodvar > Cheers, > Willblake2 > > On Sep 22, 2009, at 2:07:08 AM, [email protected] wrote: > From: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MD] The MOQ/Zen relationship. > Date: Septem ber 22, 2009 2:07:08 AM PDT > To: [email protected] > Marsha and Group > > 21 Sep. you wrote: > > > I certainly understand you wanting to keep religion separate, and it > > does seem the mystic experience is often linked to religious > > traditions, but it doesn't have to be so. I've read that even the > > Dalai Lama, in his efforts to bring together East and West, has > > warned to be attentive to what is insight/wisdom and what is > > cultural tradition, which are often entangled. The Buddhist > > traditions are beneficial because they are not theistic, and their > > purpose is to bring enlightenment (however that word may be > > understood or misunderstood) to benefit all.? > > I started my post by saying that religion as something defying reason? > only occurred after "reason" i.e. the intellectual level. And I'm > afraid? this your introducing Dalai Lama brings MOQ into the murky > Buddhist? waters I want to "save it from" - sorry for being so > implacable. He? speaks about "insight-wisdom versus cultural > tradition, and "insight- wisdom" may match "what defies reason" but > "cultural tradition" in? Tibet is not our Western REASON.? > > Tibetan cultural tradition was/is all about achieving the mystical? > experience while Western Reason is all about preventing such which? is > dismissed as hysteria, mental illness .. etc.? > > Back to the MOQ. Before Reason - i.e. intellect - the social reality? > ruled and there was no S/O (mystic/reason) distinction (why it was? > regarded as Quality itself by Pirsig) Yet, the MOQ is not a return to > the? pre S/O (social reality) it's a reunion of Subject/Object beyond > intellect.? So, I do not particularly want to involve Orientalism > because this may -? as Pirsig and this discussion has touched on - be > a culture that has? gone through the intellectual stage, but not > developed it into a SOM,? before going on to a Quality-like stage.This > creates OUR East/West? chasm. Dalai Lama may understand the West, but > we only sees? "mysticism" over there.? > > Yours profoundly? > > Bodvar > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
