Fernando, Another thought more related to this thread. Mr. Pirsig wrote LILA using many different voices. I appreciate the MoQ and enjoy the definitions, explanations and arguments made on its behalf. I think Dynamic Quality and static patterns of value (unpatterned experience and patterned experience) represent the best world-view available to the West, but it was Lila's voice with which I most identified. I still think the best understanding of 'reality' is found in Lila's words: "...I'm whatever your questions turn me into. You don't see that. It's your questions that make me who I am. If you think I'm an angel then that's what I am. If you think I'm a whore then that's what I am. I'm whatever you think. And if you change your mind about me then I change too. So whatever Richard tells you, it's true. There's no way he can lie about me.": reality is whatever you think it is, there's no way you can lie about it, and if you change your understanding of reality, then reality changes too.
There is also Lila's statement that dance is the key to life. Marsha -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 3:59 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MD] ego vs self Hallo, Marsha! Having a feminine voice in the group is an interesting addition, i think. Why do you think the great scholars of mankind, the prophets, the poets (with a few exceptions), the sages and leaders of mankind have always been male? There´s a lot we can learn with females but they are often put behind the scenes... Why would that be? Is woman evil, does she lead to confusion has she been less imposing throughout time? Yours truly, Fernando. ----- Mensagem de [email protected] --------- Data: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 12:57:10 -0400 De: MarshaV <[email protected]> Endereço para Resposta (Reply-To): [email protected] Assunto: Re: [MD] ego vs self Para: [email protected] > > > John, > > Fine, if this is what you think, because reality is whatever you think it to > be (ease to label, hard to define). > > > Marsha > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Carl > Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 12:48 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MD] ego vs self > > The way I look at it Marsha, is this: "What I think" is one thing > "Reality" is another. That's just your basic rule of being. But the line > between the two is flexible and a creative and conscious choice. THAT is > the MoQ insight into the situation. > > The outline of my self is the inline of the world and the creative act of > drawing the line is a dynamic process. > > which doesn't permit any sort of hard and fast line in the sand, the kind > that reductionist westerners crave. > > oh well > > Quality and me - easy to label, hard to define. > > ------------- > > On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 12:21 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> John, >> >> If this is what you think, fine, because reality is whatever you think it >> to >> be. >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> ------------- >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Carl >> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:09 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [MD] ego vs self >> >> Marsha, >> On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 10:27 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > >> > You can choose to be a finite self, but for how long? >> >> >> >> "how long" is a question about the future. Choice doesn't exist in the >> future; Choice exists in the moment. >> >> >> >> > How long before you >> > stop choosing, and the patterns take over without your conscious >> awareness. >> > Does your finite self change? If yes, isn't that a contradiction? >> >> >> >> The boundaries of my finitude change with my choice of focus, my finitude >> is >> bounded by this focus. In the moment of choice, there are no >> contradictions. >> >> >> >> >> > The MoQ >> > states that there is static patterns of value and Dynamic Quality, where >> > does your _finite_ self fit into that framework? Hmmmm? >> >> >> >> Ummm... lower left corner? Dead Center? It's not really up to me. I'll >> let others decide. I'm lazy that way. > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > ----- Final da mensagem de [email protected] ----- Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
