HI Mark, I enjoy your posts too.
How does experience: seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, smelling and thinking, come about? Experience comes about by an interaction between dynamic quality and the patterned relationship with the previous experience. It's the endless dance of Lila . 'And they whirl and they twirl and they tango...' Jai KALI-MA!!! Praises to the great Mother! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGPV4TbY9CI - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfdpR7w7l5E&feature=related - What do you think? I enjoy trying to do some SOM dancing? But I also like to communicate by painting. There is this headless woman in a red dress goading me to go further. No need for computers? When ever I am in the Apple Store or playing with my new iMac, I am sure I am in the Garden of Eden munching on a MacIntosh. That would be a Garden of Eden without a judgemental old goat. Marsha On Dec 18, 2009, at 12:34 AM, markhsmit wrote: > Hi Marsha. > I'm not quite sure what you are agreeing with, but it's good to agree. > You don't have to prove anything to me. I enjoy your posts. It is > hard to communicate without SOM, was my point. Let's reduce it > to the Quality level. That way there will be no need for computers. > > Thanks for the encouragement. > > Mark > > On Dec 17, 2009, at 1:23:23 AM, "Marsha Valkyr" <[email protected]> wrote: > From: "Marsha Valkyr" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [MD] CO2 and Climate. > Date: December 17, 2009 1:23:23 AM PST > To: [email protected] > > Hi Marl > > Now I have to prove to you, in some language, that I know? Hahahaha... I > might better be able to dance it on the back of you hand like some Waggle > Dance. > > And your reducing it to SOM is the Intellectual Level! Exactly what Bo has > been shouting from the rooftops, and I agree with him. > > Thanks for making me dance. > > > Marsha > > > > > > On Dec 17, 2009, at 3:53 AM, markhsmit wrote: > >> Hi Marsha, >> I like to think of it as realism. If you get too far away from the body, >> there >> is no way to teach. Patterned and unpatterned experience. Explain >> experience to me without the physical. Yes, they are all labels, all >> metaphors, it is the way we communicate. Static v dynamic, unchanging >> v changing, all based around motion. These are just labels as well subject/ >> object talk. I know you feel it, but communicating it is the hard part. What >> is >> the difference between static and dynamic, between patterned and unpatterned? >> How do you distinguish? Give me some examples and I'll reduce it all to SOM. >> Slap a tree down, and I'll think that maybe you are getting it. >> >> How does the experience come about? What is so different about it? What >> exactly do you mean by experience? Our sense of self? Does it require >> movement? Are patterns necessary for experience? Give me another word for >> experience. >> >> Thanks for making me think. >> Mark >> >> On Dec 17, 2009, at 12:28:21 AM, "Marsha Valkyr" <[email protected]> wrote: >> From: "Marsha Valkyr" <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [MD] CO2 and Climate. >> Date: December 17, 2009 12:28:21 AM PST >> To: [email protected] >> >> >> So, all this talk, Mark, about "The way this intellect achieves knowing is >> through the mechanics of the brain and the body." and "So in this way, the >> intellect is the "soul"" is just so much static subject/object talk. - Marsha >> >> >> >> >> On Dec 17, 2009, at 2:49 AM, Marsha Valkyr wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi Mark, >>> >>> I'd like to take a stab at an explanation... >>> >>> RMP has equated quality/value/experience/reality (They are the labels, not >>> the experience.) I like to use the word 'experience'. From an emerging >>> Quality level there is Experience (unpatterned (DQ) and patterned (sq)). >>> All the talk of quality, experience, self, stone-age men, barking dogs, >>> brains, minds, bodies, and even the MoQ is talk of analogues. From the >>> Quality Level there is no explanation, only experience: unpatterned and >>> patterned. Talk of Absolute truth, conventional truth, relativism is all >>> still just intellectualizing about analogues. There is a saying that goes >>> something like 'If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him'. The Buddha >>> is sometimes equated with the dharma, the teaching. So my understanding is >>> that, in the end, even the teaching needs to be killed, like "Kill all >>> intellectual patterns. Kill them completely." On the Quality Level there is >>> only experience, unpatterned and patterned. >>> >>> imho >>> >>> >>> Marsha >>> >>> >>> >>> On Dec 16, 2009, at 11:24 PM, markhsmit wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Dec 16, 2009, at 1:45:58 PM, [email protected] wrote: >>>> In many places Pirsig uses the term knowledge as synonymous with >>>> intellect, but "ability to know" makes me a little uneasy. Stone Age >>>> (social level) humans knew to perfection what was necessary for their >>>> existence, but this (both dextrous skill and the "how to") knowledge I >>>> relegate to intelligence. By knowledge in connection with intellect we >>>> mean something grander, the objective, scientific truth as contrasted >>>> to the subjective "I just wish - or want - this to be true". Don't start >>>> about science's limitations, all this is part of the MOQ's scope . >>>> >>>> Hi Skutvik, >>>> Interesting that you would think the current knowledge as objective. It is >>>> quite clear to me >>>> that it is all subjective. That you would claim it to be objective belies >>>> the depth of >>>> hypnosis you are in. If it is objective, then why doesn't a tree know it? >>>> Science is a >>>> creation of the human brain, nothing more. There is no objectivity in >>>> language, in >>>> communication, all of it is subjective agreement, no different from a >>>> barking dog. >>>> Yes it has meaning to us, but that is about it. A barking dog has meaning >>>> to a dog. >>>> It is time you break this cage you are in. The human appreciation of >>>> existence is >>>> Quality itself, nothing more. I can see that you wish to be at the top of >>>> the heap. >>>> But it doesn't take much to see through all of that. You seem to be cast >>>> in a spell. >>>> All of it may have meaning to you, in the name of Pirsig, but there is so >>>> much more. >>>> You are just scratching the surface. There are many trails, MoQ is one of >>>> them. I know >>>> you believe Quality to be some large encompassing absolute truth, but it >>>> is a bubble >>>> of truth amongst many other bubbles. It is sustained by convention within, >>>> but not from >>>> without. Try as I may, I can see that this bubble will be hard to break, >>>> but fear not, there >>>> is nothing to fear. Open your mind. >>>> >>>> All the best in your journey, >>>> Mark >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ _____________ Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars... Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
