Hi Steve In my posting frenzy
22 Dec. u wrote to Matt: Who had written (I believe): > > For instance, if social patterns are "unconscious copying > > of behavior" and intellectual patterns "unconscious > > copying of rationales of behavior, then does this suggest > > that intellectual patterns might usurp our behavior > > entirely if we were to become entirely guided by > > rationales of behavior? Or does the "unconscious" bit > > signify a trait we are unlikely to shake, and therefore such > > a dream (well into its third millennium) equally unlikely? "Unconscious copying"? My foot! There is no consciousness in the MOQ. Steve: > I agree with Pirsig that social patterns evolved prior to intellectual > patterns. I just don't think that picking a moment in time for the > occurence of the first intellectual pattern is important especially > since this same evolution of patterns occurs every day as biological > babies begin to participate in social patterns and later begin to > participate in intellectual patterns. I also think that if we all > agree that the first intellectual pattern occurred on such and such a > date, we would still have little idea about what is meant by a social > pattern as opposed to an intellectual pattern which was Mary's > original question. What about the event described in ZAMM as SOM emerging from the Aretê past, isn't this a pretty convincing "candidate for the occurrence of the intellectual level from the social ditto? A "moment in time" depends, this transition definitely did not happen overnight, Western philosophy history often begins with Thales (585 BC) but there may have been a whole string of thinkers of whom the earliest began to doubt the Greek mythological-social past. We know from Homer's "Iliad" that it describes the said past, but then no one is sure when he lived, maybe it was his longing for a the good old days. Bodvar PS This is the Western "intellect", regarding the Oriental ditto I think Pirsig (in the PT letter) is just right about the Vedic-Upanishad transition describes it well .... except for this being non-S/O which is plain impossible, philosophy IS a search for objective truth. However, it did not expand into a SOM "over there". Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
