Hey Bruce, Welcome aboard. Do you consider Dynamic Quality to be a form of energy?
Thanks, Platt On 22 Dec 2009 at 15:28, Bruce Underwood wrote: > > > My theory: > I think the line is blurred as to when intellectual pattern began, but feel > that it began when people began teaching other people skills. I think several > things came into play to form the intellectual level: 1) Language was > developed 2) knowledge was recognized in the form of memory 3) Written > Language developed > > The intellectual level began when the social level realized that they could > overcome the "memory barrier" of the biological level (death) by passing > skills to other generations via language. The limitation of the biological > level is that memory is only passed at via DNA. The need came through the > social level to share survival skills to future generations. The first way > of doing this was through spoken language, but the real innovation came when > written word was created. For the first time there was a way to create > lasting memory that social level could use that circumvented the biological > level. I believe this was the beginning of the intellectual level. > > As far as religions are concerned, there would be no religion if death did > not exist. I think that the MoQ allows for religion, but I think that it > clearly shows the division of religion and the "Church of Science" IMO > however, MoQ opens the door for "religion" in the arguments around Quantum > physics and in the whole concept of "Quality" as the driving force in > everything. The problem that I see is everybody wants to use the same stale > aruguments to prove something that is out of the realm of proof at this > point. Interestingly, perhaps the first intellectual acheivement allowed the > social level to circumvent death, but it is the social level is still > attempting to overcome death via religion. To me, MoQ shows that every thing > returns to patterns of energy...if not one pattern then another. > > Bruce Underwood > > ---------------------------------------- > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:19:19 +0100 > > Subject: Re: [MD] The MOQ and religions. > > > > Hi Steve > > > > In my posting frenzy > > > > 22 Dec. u wrote to Matt: > > > > Who had written (I believe): > >>> For instance, if social patterns are "unconscious copying > >>> of behavior" and intellectual patterns "unconscious > >>> copying of rationales of behavior, then does this suggest > >>> that intellectual patterns might usurp our behavior > >>> entirely if we were to become entirely guided by > >>> rationales of behavior? Or does the "unconscious" bit > >>> signify a trait we are unlikely to shake, and therefore such > >>> a dream (well into its third millennium) equally unlikely? > > > > "Unconscious copying"? My foot! There is no consciousness in the > > MOQ. > > > > Steve: > >> I agree with Pirsig that social patterns evolved prior to intellectual > >> patterns. I just don't think that picking a moment in time for the > >> occurence of the first intellectual pattern is important especially > >> since this same evolution of patterns occurs every day as biological > >> babies begin to participate in social patterns and later begin to > >> participate in intellectual patterns. I also think that if we all > >> agree that the first intellectual pattern occurred on such and such a > >> date, we would still have little idea about what is meant by a social > >> pattern as opposed to an intellectual pattern which was Mary's > >> original question. > > > > What about the event described in ZAMM as SOM emerging from the > > Aretê past, isn't this a pretty convincing "candidate for the occurrence > > of the intellectual level from the social ditto? A "moment in time" > > depends, this transition definitely did not happen overnight, Western > > philosophy history often begins with Thales (585 BC) but there may > > have been a whole string of thinkers of whom the earliest began to > > doubt the Greek mythological-social past. We know from Homer's > > "Iliad" that it describes the said past, but then no one is sure when he > > lived, maybe it was his longing for a the good old days. > > > > Bodvar > > > > > > PS > > This is the Western "intellect", regarding the Oriental ditto I think Pirsig > > (in the PT letter) is just right about the Vedic-Upanishad transition > > describes it well .... except for this being non-S/O which is plain > > impossible, philosophy IS a search for objective truth. However, it did > > not expand into a SOM "over there". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
