I agree Bruce, DQ patterns, entropy un-patterns. The patterns are sq.
There's the world in a nutshell. John On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Bruce Underwood <[email protected] > wrote: > > > Hello All, I really appreciate your responses on this... it certainly feeds > my mind... > > In my reference to chaos, it is not concerning a branch of science, but a > simple concept of organization breaking down into a disorganized state. > www.dictionary.com: > 1. a state of utter confusion or disorder; a total lack of > organization or order. > > > It appears to me that there are two systems at work and perhaps that is > Dynamic Quality creating Dynamic Chaos or destruction. However, there is > "something" that causes things to move from a state of disorder to order > that does not alighn with the 2nd law of thermodynmics and that to me is > Quality. I see it that anything that is organized into patterns did that > out of Dynamic Quality and is Quality itself. If it is not organized it is > in a state of chaos. However, what is it that moves things from a state of > organization back to chaos? Is that Quality? If so, then it appears that > Quality is both Dynamic Quality and Dynamic Chaos... > > Perhaps I put to much emphasis on the 2nd law of thermodynmics, but Pirsig > does reference this in Lila. Things left alone will break down from an > organized state to a state of disorganization. (need to find it) > > Thanks, > > Bruce > > > [Dan] > > chaos > > > > A new branch of science that deals with systems whose evolution > > depends very sensitively upon the initial conditions. Turbulent flows > > of fluids (such as white water in a river) and the prediction of the > > weather are two areas where chaos theory has been applied with some > > success. (www.dictionary.com) > > > > I think it is pretty clear that this is not what Robert Pirsig means > > by Dynamic Quality. I recall that I once asked him about whether it > > was wise to say Dynamic Quality is always positive. He said (and I > > paraphrase) perhaps not, that it might be better to say it's not this, > > not that. It is in LILA'S CHILD toward the end. > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Krimel wrote: > >>> [Krimel] > >>> What a depressing quote. Chaos is not always a destructive force in > fact > >>> it is the creative power of the universe. Order is a subset of chaos. > If > >>> this was a fairly new idea when Pirsig wrote Lila is was not 10 years > >>> later. He really should know better. > >> > >> [Steve] > >> If you are calling chaos the creative power of the universe and order > >> a subject of chaos, it sounds like what you are calling chaos Pirsig > >> calls Quality. > >> > >> [Krimel] > >> Yes, and I have been doing so consistently for years now. > >> > >> Just look at the quote Andre provided: > >> > >> 'Dynamic Quality and chaos are both patternless, and so it would seem > they > >> have a lot in common, particularly the fact that you can't say anything > >> about them without getting into static patterns." > >> > >> [Krimel] > >> Yes, yes, you are almost there Bob. It is like the passage in Lila where > you > >> say that the MoQ could almost be thought of as a Metaphysics of > Randomness. > >> > >> [Unfortunately the quote continues...] > >> "But if you do, you can say that Dynamic Quality is good and precedes > static > >> improvement. It is the source of experience. Chaos, by contrast is the > >> condition of total destruction. You can't call it either good or bad. > >> It is not the source of anything'." > >> > >> [Krimel] > >> This just reduces DQ to anything that is "good" not all DQ is good and > DQ > >> does not always precede static improvement. Conversely chaos does not > always > >> produce destruction. Selection of lottery tickets is a chaotic process > and > >> it often produces enormous good for someone. Chaos only looks > destructive > >> because disordered states are much more likely than ordered states. > >> > >> Chaos is a creative force in the universe because it means that nothing > is > >> ever rigid and fixed and lawful. Everything is changing chaotically and > >> there is always room of "oops" and "aha". The world is not a Newtonian > >> billiard table, an idealized plane and hypothetical spheres. The world > is a > >> pool hall with erratic lighting, free flowing alcohol and sexual > tension. > >> What determines whether or not the eight ball lands in the side pocket > is, > >> more often than not, the whims of Bacchus and Eros not the Laws of > geometry > >> and physics. > >> > >> > >> Moq_Discuss mailing list > >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > >> Archives: > >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > >> > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
