Hi Steve, Thank you for these gems! It is a confirmation on my thoughts in this area and gives me more to ponder. Is this in "Lila's Child"?
Concerning struggles within levels... the easiest example that I can think of: is biological against biological - virus attacking the human body and the immune defenses that the body has developed. But there are millions of examples on every level. Social Level: Church and State Bruce ---------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 11:02:59 -0500 > From: [email protected] > To: moq_disc...@moqta lk.org > Subject: Re: [MD] Intellectual and Social > > Hi Platt, Bruce, > > More Pirsig on the struggles: > > > "If you compare the levels of static patterns that compose a human being to > the ecology of a forest, and if you see the different patterns sometimes in > competition with each other, sometimes in symbiotic support of each other, > but always in a kind of tension that will shift one way or the other, > depending on evolving circumstances, then you can also see that evolution > doesn't take place only within societies, it takes place within individuals > too. It's possible to see Lila as something much greater than a customary > sociological or anthropological description would have her be. Lila then > becomes a complex ecology of patterns moving toward Dynamic Quality. Lila > individually, herself, is in an evolutionary battle against the static > patterns of her own life." > > "That's why the absence of suffering last night seemed so ominous and her > change to what looked like suffering today gave Phædrus a feeling she > was getting better. If you eliminate suffering from this world you > eliminate life. There's no evolution. Those species that don't > suffer don't survive. Suffering is the negative face of the Quality > that drives the whole process. All these battles between patterns of > evolution go on within suffering individuals like Lila." > > "And Lila's battle is everybody's battle, you know? Sometimes the insane and > the contrarians and the ones who are the closest to suicide are the most > valuable people society has. They may be precursors of social change. > They've taken the burdens of the culture onto themselves, and in their > struggle to solve their own problems they're solving problems for the > culture as well." > > Platt said: >> Excellent. These "struggles" between and within moral levels is central to >> understanding the MOQ. The one remaining question that I don't think anyone >> has answered is: "Are moral values and their struggles empirical facts? > > Steve: > I'm not sure what you mean by "empirical facts." If you are just > asking if they are real, I don't know why anyone would doubt that > these struggles were real so I wouldn't no where to begin in arguing > that they are real. > > Best, > Steve > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
