DmB, I think the distinction needs to be made between theism and fascism. Or maybe thats your point, there isn't much of a distinction in regard to the particular kind of theism you are discussing.
-Ron ----- Original Message ---- From: david buchanan <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, February 9, 2010 2:05:49 AM Subject: Re: [MD] Demanding Evidence From Theists Mary said to Steve: We have no argument at all. I reject Sam Harris' definition of an atheist. Sounds like he's just trying to get into theist's face with it. Pick a fight. As long as my liberties are not violated, I support the right of others to believe things I do not. That's only fair. Sam Harris said in his Atheist Manifesto: "The atheist is merely a person who believes that the...[people] who claim to never doubt the existence of God should be obliged to present evidence for his existence..." dmb says: Yes, Sam Harris is getting in their face and picking a fight. I love Sam Harris. We need Sam Harris. If it were just a matter of letting people have their secret beliefs, all tucked away from the world deep in their hearts, we wouldn't even be talking about this. Isn't it just a bit disingenuous to pretend that there's ISN'T a war on? I don't just mean foreign Islamic militants but also the fundamentalists here at home. You know what Sarah Palin means when she refers to "real" Americans, don't you? She mean theists. That whole tea party thing too. Just try to find an atheist in that crowd. Bet you a buck you can't find one. That pro-life dude who killed the abortion doctor was just found guilty and sentenced the other day. The doctors not yet killed by these guys are feeling mighty nervous. One up the road from us has been forced to hire private security guards cause his whole family has been issued a death threat. This has been going on since abortion was legalized decades ago. Theism drives the republican party now more than ever and they controlled all three branches of government for eight of the last nine years. This brand of theopolitics goes back to Reagan, at least. This war has been going as long as I can remember. I used to sit in church as a boy and listen to the story of how they going to bring this nation back to god. Well, looks like that wasn't just hot air. It is a mighty, mi ghty, well funded and highly organized long term effort, the signs of which can be seen in any newspaper on any day of the week. Isn't it impossible to pretend that this is not a matter of public concern? This hypothetical theists who never acts on his or her belief is pure fiction. Or so it seems to me. I think Sam's point is valid. He points out that we have this strange custom in our society wherein all our normal standards of reasonableness are abandoned when it comes to religious beliefs. You can challenge a guy and call him crazy for using a putter in the sand trap but if he cuts off the tip of his son's penis because he thinks god likes things that way we don't say a word about it. That's just weird. Sam is just saying that we should be consistent, that giving religion a free pass or abandoning the standards of reasonableness is hurting us. And who knows, maybe religion would rise to the challenge and get itself straightened out. I heard an especially creepy story the other day. Apparently, several Congressmen have been helping a Nigerian politician pass a law in Nigeria that will impose the death penalty on gay people just for being gay. These Americans are conservative, christian, republicans who belong to a quasi-secret group that's been operating in the nation's capital for decades. They're like some kind of christian mafia. These are the same folks who are behind the national prayer breakfast, which has always been a little slap in the face of church-state separation. I realize this sounds like a wacky conspiracy theory but I just checked and Wiki has a page about it. Didn't read it, just checked to see if there was one. There's a big fat book out about them titled "The Family". This is just stuff I picked up without trying, you know. I'm not looking for dirt on theists, it's just there in the news. It's just in my face. Have you not heard about this stuff? You just don't think it's a problem? I'm not saying we should panic, but it does seem wrong to be unconcerned. Am I the only one who see it that way? _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469227/direct/01/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
