[Dave] So RMP claim that capitalism was not an intellectual pattern at the time of the emergence of socialism is just not valid.
[Arlo] That's never been how I read that passage, Dave. It sounds like your setting up a strawman. You will, however, likely induce multiple orgasms for Platt. Of course "capitalism" as an economic theory is an "intellectual pattern". What Pirsig is saying is that capitalism champions the domination of social patterns over intellectual patterns, while "socialism" (also an intellectual pattern) champions the domination of intellectual patterns over social patterns. Although the disinformists of our day are trying to conflate radical right-wing ideology (fascism) with radical left-wing ideology (communism), the truth is that fascism was entirely about the domination of social patterns over intellect. The fascists, as is typical of the radical right, were (are) aggressively anti-intellectual, aggressively anti-media (except their own specific narrow channel), and aggressively nationalistic. Justification of law was based entirely on mob rule, on xenophobia and on fear of some national enemy. In theory, communism was the antithesis of fascism, which is why the fascists hated it so much (as do modern fascists). In practice, "communism" amounted to nothing more than variations of social despotism. Outside of Craig's examples, there have been no valid Marxist communities. Lenin, Stalin, Mao, all followed the radical right-wing notion of intense social domination over intellect. They were "communist" only by name. In all of these countries, the Academy was demonized, the media was marginalized, and nationalistic and patriotic fervor in the face of ever-present enemies to the state was the norm. The hyrbid economies of the West, Canada, and Europe, as well as some other countries, are the ones that came the closest to intellect-over-social organization. Maybe you could put Denmark, Canada and New Zealand among the top three. So again, its not about capitalism as a theory being a "social pattern", its that capitalism (according to Pirsig, and I agree) facilitates placing social patterns in charge of intellectual patterns. Another thing to consider, is that capitalism as a mode of production and distribution is as much a victim of the S/O illness as science. Much of ZMM is a criticism of the result of an S/O foundation to modern practices of production and consumption. The rampant materialism that drives the American economy is seen as the result of a Quality-blind cultural orientation that results not only in the emptiness of factory production but the turning to the "vendors of style". Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
