Hi Marsha
The problem here is that you've defined everything but subjects and objects out
of the equation! Your starting point is to define the Intellectual level as
consisting of only subjects and objects and then say that it's all subjects and
objects because that's how it's defined.
On Mar 30, 2010, at 8:27 AM, Horse wrote:
/ Hi Marsha
/>>/
/>>/ Process metaphysics is written in the same language as SOM, Shakespeare,
/>>/ King Charles bible, Wikipedia, the C++ Standard Library, this mailing
list AND MoQ.
/> All you list are subject/object oriented.
So the MoQ is now S/O oriented!!!
For me there is a Quality Level where
Reality is Quality(unpatterned experience& patterned experience), and as of
yet, no language (except possible when used poetically) properly communicates
that reality. Even within physics there is no way yet to intellectualize what
is
still in its infancy of discovery and understanding. I like best the
possibilities
for entanglement. But I will admit I know very little.
Quality level? There is no Quality level - you're now trying to subjugate
Quality to a static pattern of Value. This is what levels are - static patterns
of Value. Yes, Quality is Reality, according to the MoQ and can be subdivided
into Dynamic Quality (Unpatterned Experience [UE]) and Static Quality
(Patterned experience [PE] otherwise known as static patterns of Value - or the
levels of the MoQ). What you appear to be saying is that there is a fifth level
of Value (static - has to be because it's a level) which is Quality. So now
Quality (reality) consists of DQ and SQ (UE and PE) where SQ (PE) also contains
Quality!!!!!
No wonder no language can properly communicate that reality.
This is what I meant when I said that Bo's interpretation has mangled the MoQ.
/ If your point is that because we "use subjects and objects [and] the
associated
/>>/ rules for their manipulation" then the Intellectual level is strictly S/O
then the
/>>/ MoQ, which is written in the same language, is also at this same level.
So the
/>>/ MoQ is part of the Intellectual level - which is not what you or Bo
appear to
/>>/ be saying.
/
Yes, there is the SOM explanation of the MoQ, where it is intellectually
presented
and explained as a theory: ZMM, LILA, SODV, etc.,
It's not a SOM explanation it's just an explanation in English and
shows quite clearly that SOM and MoQ are Intellectual patterns of Value.
but there is also the MoQ that
represents Reality equals Quality(unpatterned experience& patterned
experience.)
This is just a re-statement of of Pirsig's Reality = Quality = DQ + SQ.
If this MoQ represents it then how does it do this if not by S/O as you have
said.
Mary has asked, and I have asked for examples of intellectual patterns that
aren't presented as the manipulation of reified concepts and the rules for their
manipulation, but I have seen no such examples.
And I have given examples but while you have defined them out of the picture
you will
continue to fail to see them as such.
How on earth can Zero be either subject or object when it references neither?
Or infinity?
Your process metaphysics is
most certainly a s/o presentation, hopeful for the future, but still mired in
SOM.
Process metaphysics is in direct opposition to SOM - it says so on the label!
I'm sticking with Bo. The Intellectual Level is through and through SOM.
Sorry, but Bo's Intellectual Level (and yours it would appear) may be SOM
through and through but the Intellectual level of the MoQ is Intellectual
patterns of Value. Subjects and objects are just some of these patterns not
it's entirety.
Cheers, chocolate and love,
Marsha
Big kisses
Horse
--
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an
attractive and well preserved body, but to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, wine
in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what
a ride!"... Hunter S Thompson
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