Horse, I am not trying to convince you of anything. To me the MoQ represent Reality as Quality(unpatterned experience & patterned experience). Marsha On Mar 30, 2010, at 1:15 PM, Horse wrote:
> Marsha > > What you seem to be supporting is a low quality interpretation of the MoQ. > A metaphysics has to make sense or it has little value. > What you have said makes little sense to me. > > Cheers > > > Horse > > On 30/03/2010 17:55, MarshaV wrote: >> Horse, >> >> You want logic, talk to Craig. I'm supporting paradox. >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> >> On Mar 30, 2010, at 12:26 PM, Horse wrote: >> >> >>> Hi Marsha >>> >>> The problem here is that you've defined everything but subjects and objects >>> out of the equation! Your starting point is to define the Intellectual >>> level as consisting of only subjects and objects and then say that it's all >>> subjects and objects because that's how it's defined. >>> >>> On Mar 30, 2010, at 8:27 AM, Horse wrote: >>> >>> >>>>> / Hi Marsha >>>>> >>> />>/ >>> />>/ Process metaphysics is written in the same language as SOM, >>> Shakespeare, >>> />>/ King Charles bible, Wikipedia, the C++ Standard Library, this mailing >>> list AND MoQ. >>> >>> /> All you list are subject/object oriented. >>> >>> So the MoQ is now S/O oriented!!! >>> >>> >>>> For me there is a Quality Level where >>>> Reality is Quality(unpatterned experience& patterned experience), and as >>>> of >>>> yet, no language (except possible when used poetically) properly >>>> communicates >>>> that reality. Even within physics there is no way yet to intellectualize >>>> what is >>>> still in its infancy of discovery and understanding. I like best the >>>> possibilities >>>> for entanglement. But I will admit I know very little. >>>> >>> Quality level? There is no Quality level - you're now trying to subjugate >>> Quality to a static pattern of Value. This is what levels are - static >>> patterns of Value. Yes, Quality is Reality, according to the MoQ and can be >>> subdivided into Dynamic Quality (Unpatterned Experience [UE]) and Static >>> Quality (Patterned experience [PE] otherwise known as static patterns of >>> Value - or the levels of the MoQ). What you appear to be saying is that >>> there is a fifth level of Value (static - has to be because it's a level) >>> which is Quality. So now Quality (reality) consists of DQ and SQ (UE and >>> PE) where SQ (PE) also contains Quality!!!!! >>> No wonder no language can properly communicate that reality. >>> This is what I meant when I said that Bo's interpretation has mangled the >>> MoQ. >>> >>> >>>>> / If your point is that because we "use subjects and objects [and] the >>>>> associated >>>>> >>> />>/ rules for their manipulation" then the Intellectual level is strictly >>> S/O then the >>> />>/ MoQ, which is written in the same language, is also at this same >>> level. So the >>> />>/ MoQ is part of the Intellectual level - which is not what you or Bo >>> appear to >>> />>/ be saying. >>> / >>> >>>> Yes, there is the SOM explanation of the MoQ, where it is intellectually >>>> presented >>>> and explained as a theory: ZMM, LILA, SODV, etc., >>>> >>> It's not a SOM explanation it's just an explanation in English and >>> shows quite clearly that SOM and MoQ are Intellectual patterns of Value. >>> >>> >>>> but there is also the MoQ that >>>> represents Reality equals Quality(unpatterned experience& patterned >>>> experience.) >>>> >>> This is just a re-statement of of Pirsig's Reality = Quality = DQ + SQ. >>> If this MoQ represents it then how does it do this if not by S/O as you >>> have said. >>> >>> >>>> Mary has asked, and I have asked for examples of intellectual patterns that >>>> aren't presented as the manipulation of reified concepts and the rules for >>>> their >>>> manipulation, but I have seen no such examples. >>>> >>> And I have given examples but while you have defined them out of the >>> picture you will >>> continue to fail to see them as such. >>> How on earth can Zero be either subject or object when it references >>> neither? >>> Or infinity? >>> >>> >>>> Your process metaphysics is >>>> most certainly a s/o presentation, hopeful for the future, but still mired >>>> in SOM. >>>> >>>> >>> Process metaphysics is in direct opposition to SOM - it says so on the >>> label! >>> >>> >>>> I'm sticking with Bo. The Intellectual Level is through and through SOM. >>>> >>> Sorry, but Bo's Intellectual Level (and yours it would appear) may be SOM >>> through and through but the Intellectual level of the MoQ is Intellectual >>> patterns of Value. Subjects and objects are just some of these patterns not >>> it's entirety. >>> >>> >>> >>>> Cheers, chocolate and love, >>>> >>> >>>> Marsha >>>> >>> >>> Big kisses >>> >>> Horse >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving >>> safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but to skid in sideways, >>> chocolate in one hand, wine in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally >>> worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"... Hunter S Thompson >>> >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> > > -- > > Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving > safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but to skid in sideways, > chocolate in one hand, wine in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally > worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"... Hunter S Thompson > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
