Arlo, Your game, your rules, your cleverness, I'm bored...
Marsha On May 12, 2010, at 9:12 AM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR wrote: > [Marsha] > I consider Bo correct in labeling the Intellectual Level SOM because > Intellectual Static Patterns of Value are reified concepts and the rules for > their manipulation. > > [Arlo] > Which is, of course, NOT SOM. At least not SOM in any way that Pirsig talked > about it. In fact, this is simply a tautology. All levels are "reified" stable > patterns of preference. This does not make them "SOM". > > [Marsha] > Intellectual patterns create false boundaries, giving the illusion of > independence, or 'thingness'. > > [Arlo] > Intellectual patterns create boundaries, yes. Those boundaries that envelop > the > "subject-object" primacy are those that are SOM. Those that do not, are not. > SOM is, to restate the above, those particular patterns which do not > understand > the "illusion". > > [Marsha] > The fourth level is a formalized subject/object level where the subjective is > supposedly stripped from the experience. > > [Arlo] > No. The fourth level is stable patterns of preference involving the > manipulation of symbolically encoded experience. The "subject is supposedly > stripped" only in SOM. The MOQ is an intellectual pattern that does not make > this mistake (giving primacy to a subject-object dualism). > > [Marsha] > We're all peddling in a s/o format, so why the shock? > > [Arlo] > Well, as I said several times, it makes the central conflict of ZMM > meaningless, since intellect was always, and is always, SOM. As I said, this > steps up the morass of needing to say that "intellect" is something to be > overcome or "transcended". > > [Marsha] > The point of ZMM and LILA is, in my opinion, to point to what is beyond SOM. > > [Arlo] > The point of ZMM and LILA is to expand rationality, not condemn it forever in > an SOM prison. The Sophists were not peddling SOM, they were advancing an > intellectual foundation that was decisively non-SOM! That was the conflict in > ZMM. Aristotle was pushing something else, and this is what Pirsig uncovered > in > ZMM. > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
