On 31 May 2010 at 5:21, Andre Broersen wrote: Platt to Andre:
What Mr. Pirsig was talking about with regards to "container logic" was his wholehearted adoption of it to explain his new metaphysics, neatly summarized in one sentence: "What the Metaphysics of Quality would do is to take this separate category, Quality, and show how it contains within itself both subjects and objects." (Lila, 5) That one sentence also advances Bo's idea that the intellectual level is not only a "subset" of Quality but restricted to the S/O division. Andre: Hi Platt, it seems our readings of this sentence (within the context of the MOQ) is different then? Within the MOQ objects are inorganic and organic patterns of value, and subjects are social and intellectual patterns of value. All neatly arranged within an evolutionary framework. Are we sharing the same meaning of 'subjects' and 'objects'? Perhaps you can explain what you mean by these two conceptualizations(if they are indeed different to the MOQ understanding of them). This may clear up a lot of misunderstandings and 'talking passed' eachother. Hi Andre, Happy to oblige. The meaning of subjects and objects is defined by our culture. As Pirsig observed, "The culture in which we live hands us a set of intellectual glasses to interpret experience with, and the concept of the primacy of subject and objects is built right into those glasses." (Lila, 8) Obviously, the "MOQ context" is NOT built into the intellectual glasses of our culture. Instead, the meaning of subject/object that Pirsig refers to is the same as the meaning of self/other, mind/matter, internal/external, implicit/explicit, and the hundred and one other variations of "me in here and you out there" that infect our culture's language and thought. Note that in none of these "common sense" divisions is there any acknowledgment of values. It is Pirsig's singular contribution to the world's understanding that values comprise the foundation of all we know. Unfortunately, few know of Pirsig's contribution. Thus, your meaning of subjects and objects in "the MOQ context" is known and believed only by you, me and a handful contributors and lurkers here, to the rest of the world's detriment such as we are witnessing today. (If the value of ability of individuals and governments to pay back debts had been sufficiently recognized, the world would not be in its current economic mess.) Hope this answers your question. Platt Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
