Horse to Bo: Make the SOL stand on it's own merit if you can but please stop dishonestly invoking support where it doesn't exist. Many members of MD, myself included, have tried very hard over the last several months to get you to see that this is wrong but you have refused to accept this. Please don't continue along this path Bo, I like you a lot and you have been at the core of MD for a long time so please, please please consider what I have said very carefully.
Andre: I'll address this to All who are wanting to discuss Mr. Pirsig's MOQ: I appreciate the stance you take on Bodvar, Horse. I still consider myself a (in Krimel's words 'nooby'...or was it Matt?). It may not always appear that way the way I carry on sometimes. When I first came to the discuss, within no time I was assailed by Bodvar pushing his ideas and convictions. I must readily admit I was nearly convinced because ( in retrospect) it sounded and reflected the 'common sense' view. I do understand where Bodvar is coming from but I think the point to be made as well is that Phaedrus made a mockery of this point of view ( i.e a logical, scientific understanding of the world dominating mere subjective opinion about it)...in the sense that he challenged this understanding on the grounds of not being able to commensurate itself with experience. All of ZMM is about this. Through you and many others (ha!including reflections on my own experience)this position of Bodvar is simply no longer tenable. I mean, Mr. Pirsig has dedicated 50 odd years of his life to working this thing out for himself (completely on his own as John Sutherland says in the previous DVD), wrote two books and an array of papers on this, exposed himself to many an interview and in general just stuck his neck out, and it has touched on so many chords with so many people, that I have reached a very low evaluation of Bodvar's contributions to the strengthening of the MOQ discuss and the learning about the MOQ. LILA adds to ZMM not only in years but also in Quality experience which Mr. Pirsig incorporated into this work of art. Look, everyone who sticks his neck out can expect loads of flack (high trees catch loads of wind) myself included. Mr. Pirsig has stuck his neck out and especially in the LC has admitted that he may not have been clear on a few things. He was then man enough to appreciate this and rectify it. This is so wonderful about the LC. This discussion about the intellectual level annoyed him... for obvious reasons...but apparently not so obvious to some who want to hang their signature on it! BUT to have Bodvar, and some others here on this list (let's be honest) grab hold of this rectification, or rather clarification ( after all it was non comprehension on the readers' part ), as an indication of inconsistency, of self-contradiction, of weakness, of losing nerve and heart, I must repeat I find offensive. I will generalize and suggest that I think this discuss ought (!) to be about helping each other ( no ego tripping) furthering our understanding of the MOQ as Mr. Pirsig has written it down (ZMM,LILA). Of course we may differ on interpretation but that is the basis of a debate. (You do not debate about something you agree with). In my humble opinion I have reached the conclusion that Bodvar does not further my understanding of the MOQ, rather he stifles it with an interpretation and conclusion which pays disrespect to its originator, our intellectual integrity and DQ. For what it is worth. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
