Ian, These are RMP's words. Listen for yourself.
Marsha On Jul 12, 2010, at 8:44 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote: > Oohh, oohh, Nazi's 4 lines in - do I win a prize ? > > So thank Horse, freedom of speech is upheld on MD. > Ian > > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 1:37 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Arlo, >> >> To paraphrase RMP: 'any culture which permits freedom of speech is morally >> superior to any culture which does not. Because in this Metaphysics of >> Quality, intellect is a higher level of evolution, and when a social >> organization, whether it's nazis, or communists, or anybody, tries to >> prevent this evolution from taking place that is an immoral act, that's an >> evil act. And you see it happening. Once you understand this, you see it >> happening in all sorts of places that you wouldn't expect it normally.' >> >> This is from the 'Church of Reason' section of THE MOQ at OXFORD dvd. >> Notice it doesn't state an freedom of speech exemption for the MD List. >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jul 12, 2010, at 7:54 AM, Arlo Bensinger wrote: >> >>> [Bo] >>> I hate to the make it personal and would have liked to say "...those who >>> have supported the MOQ" because I know that Mary and Platt do defend the >>> MOQ. Likewise shame on the hypocrites who - to my great satisfaction - are >>> those who don't know the first thing about the MOQ - Ian and Dan f.ex. - >>> from DMB I didn't expect anything else. >>> >>> [Arlo] >>> I'm taking the liberty to rectify the poor rhetoric and ignorance in this >>> short example of "why Bo has nothing relevant to say". >>> >>> I hate to the make it personal and would have liked to say "...those who >>> have supported [my interpretation of Pirsig's] MOQ" because I know that >>> Mary and Platt do defend [my interpretation of Pirsig's] MOQ. Likewise >>> shame on the hypocrites who - to my great satisfaction - are those who >>> don't know the first thing about [why my interpretation of the MOQ is >>> better than Pirsig's] MOQ - Ian and Dan f.ex. - from DMB I didn't expect >>> anything else. >>> >>> There. Accurate. Rhetorically sound. >>> >>> What Bo has proven here, though, is just what I pointed out the other day, >>> the only expenditure here is to claim interpretive legitimacy by claiming >>> that there is ONE MOQ, and of this even the author himself is not to be >>> trusted to deliver the "strong" interpretation. >>> >>> [Pirsig] >>> There already is a metaphysics of Quality. A subject-object metaphysics is >>> in fact a metaphysics in which the first division of Quality - the first >>> slice of undivided experience is into subjects and objects. >>> >>> [Arlo] >>> Correct. What we conventionally call "THE MOQ", the convention that has >>> confounded Bo since I've been a member of the list, is what we, those >>> interested in Pirsig's ideas, use to refer to specifically Pirsig's ideas. >>> >>> This is why Bo is more concerned with claiming legitimacy for his revision >>> of Pirsig's work (claiming it is THE metaphysics of Quality) rather than >>> just stating the simple and elegant truth. >>> >>> Bo's ideas are a revision of Pirsig's ideas. >>> >>> Bo's formulation for a metaphysics of Quality is a critical revision of >>> Pirsig's metaphysics of Quality. >>> >>> Indeed, I'm going to back up for a moment to Pirsig's comment above and say >>> "of Quality" is redundant. It concretizes something (not a problem for most >>> of us, but apparently a great burden for the SOLists). >>> >>> You could just say "Pirsig's metaphysics" and be done with it. >>> >>> Bo's formulation for a metaphysics is a critical revision of Pirsig's >>> metaphysics. >>> >>> Accurate. Rhetorically sound. Valid. Simple. >>> >>> Back to Bo's horrible rhetoric. >>> >>> [Bo] >>> So, from now on I'll drop the SOL and call it by it's proper designation: >>> "The Strong Interpretation of the MOQ". >>> >>> [Arlo] >>> Actually, if you want its "proper designation", you'd have to go with "A >>> Strong Interpretation of Pirsig's MOQ"... in other words "Bo's MOQ". >>> >>> Frankly, I'm continually amazed that so much effort is spent in such shoddy >>> ways to grasp any straw of authoritative legitimacy possible. But since you >>> have never really understood Pirsig, I guess no one should be surprised. >>> >>> [Bo] >>> Whether Pirsig agrees or not is of little interest... >>> >>> [Arlo] >>> In your entire post, this is the only nine words that make any sense. >>> Kudos, as Ian said. >>> >>> [Bo] >>> ... no one can copyright reality and the MOQ is not an expansion of the >>> intellectual level, but an expansion of reality itself. >>> >>> [Arlo] >>> I'll take the liberty to correct this monstrosity as well. >>> >>> "... no one can copyright reality and [my interpretation of Pirsig's] MOQ >>> is not an expansion of the intellectual level, but an expansion of reality >>> itself. " >>> >>> Its really no wonder, Bo, with such a dismal display of "thinking", only >>> three or four people here take you seriously or pay attention to this SOL >>> nonsense at all. >>> >>> If you had been paying attention, you'd have seen I provided you a sound >>> rhetorical and argumentatively valid platform last week. >>> >>> [Arlo previously] >>> Pirsig's ideas = "A metaphysics of Quality" (the foundation for which we >>> are all here, to be sure), and Bo's ideas = "A metaphysics of Quality" that >>> is a critical revision of Pirsig's ideas. >>> >>> Bo might say "A metaphysics of Quality that holds the intellectual level to >>> SOM is better than A metaphysics of Quality that considers SOM to be one on >>> many intellectual patterns", instead of "THE metaphysics of Quality holds >>> the intellectual level to SOM". >>> >>> [Arlo] >>> Your latest post is simply more evidence that you are eternally trapped in >>> some battle (with yourself?) for interpretative legitimacy. I had hoped, as >>> I'm sure others were doing, that your time away was spent figuring that >>> out. Obviously not. >>> >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
