Hi Ian,
Yes I do see it as an issue of freedom of speech. Do you, or anyone, have a lock on that definition too? I see Bo presenting quotes that seem to support his MoQ interpretation, and acknowledging RMP quotes that spoil his MoQ interpretation. I came here because of Mr. Pirsig's pointing to the moon, not for some imagined doctrine or dogma. But I'm sick of the subject too. I would like to change the subject to the nature of all patterns. Marsha On Jul 12, 2010, at 8:49 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote: > Yeah, you said. You think I didn't know that ? > > You on the other hand seem to believe there has been some issue with > freedom of speech on MD. Welcome back Marsha. > > Ian > > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 1:46 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Ian, >> >> These are RMP's words. Listen for yourself. >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> >> On Jul 12, 2010, at 8:44 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote: >> >>> Oohh, oohh, Nazi's 4 lines in - do I win a prize ? >>> >>> So thank Horse, freedom of speech is upheld on MD. >>> Ian >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 1:37 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Arlo, >>>> >>>> To paraphrase RMP: 'any culture which permits freedom of speech is >>>> morally superior to any culture which does not. Because in this >>>> Metaphysics of Quality, intellect is a higher level of evolution, and when >>>> a social organization, whether it's nazis, or communists, or anybody, >>>> tries to prevent this evolution from taking place that is an immoral act, >>>> that's an evil act. And you see it happening. Once you understand this, >>>> you see it happening in all sorts of places that you wouldn't expect it >>>> normally.' >>>> >>>> This is from the 'Church of Reason' section of THE MOQ at OXFORD dvd. >>>> Notice it doesn't state an freedom of speech exemption for the MD List. >>>> >>>> >>>> Marsha >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jul 12, 2010, at 7:54 AM, Arlo Bensinger wrote: >>>> >>>>> [Bo] >>>>> I hate to the make it personal and would have liked to say "...those who >>>>> have supported the MOQ" because I know that Mary and Platt do defend the >>>>> MOQ. Likewise shame on the hypocrites who - to my great satisfaction - >>>>> are those who don't know the first thing about the MOQ - Ian and Dan >>>>> f.ex. - from DMB I didn't expect anything else. >>>>> >>>>> [Arlo] >>>>> I'm taking the liberty to rectify the poor rhetoric and ignorance in this >>>>> short example of "why Bo has nothing relevant to say". >>>>> >>>>> I hate to the make it personal and would have liked to say "...those who >>>>> have supported [my interpretation of Pirsig's] MOQ" because I know that >>>>> Mary and Platt do defend [my interpretation of Pirsig's] MOQ. Likewise >>>>> shame on the hypocrites who - to my great satisfaction - are those who >>>>> don't know the first thing about [why my interpretation of the MOQ is >>>>> better than Pirsig's] MOQ - Ian and Dan f.ex. - from DMB I didn't expect >>>>> anything else. >>>>> >>>>> There. Accurate. Rhetorically sound. >>>>> >>>>> What Bo has proven here, though, is just what I pointed out the other >>>>> day, the only expenditure here is to claim interpretive legitimacy by >>>>> claiming that there is ONE MOQ, and of this even the author himself is >>>>> not to be trusted to deliver the "strong" interpretation. >>>>> >>>>> [Pirsig] >>>>> There already is a metaphysics of Quality. A subject-object metaphysics >>>>> is in fact a metaphysics in which the first division of Quality - the >>>>> first slice of undivided experience is into subjects and objects. >>>>> >>>>> [Arlo] >>>>> Correct. What we conventionally call "THE MOQ", the convention that has >>>>> confounded Bo since I've been a member of the list, is what we, those >>>>> interested in Pirsig's ideas, use to refer to specifically Pirsig's ideas. >>>>> >>>>> This is why Bo is more concerned with claiming legitimacy for his >>>>> revision of Pirsig's work (claiming it is THE metaphysics of Quality) >>>>> rather than just stating the simple and elegant truth. >>>>> >>>>> Bo's ideas are a revision of Pirsig's ideas. >>>>> >>>>> Bo's formulation for a metaphysics of Quality is a critical revision of >>>>> Pirsig's metaphysics of Quality. >>>>> >>>>> Indeed, I'm going to back up for a moment to Pirsig's comment above and >>>>> say "of Quality" is redundant. It concretizes something (not a problem >>>>> for most of us, but apparently a great burden for the SOLists). >>>>> >>>>> You could just say "Pirsig's metaphysics" and be done with it. >>>>> >>>>> Bo's formulation for a metaphysics is a critical revision of Pirsig's >>>>> metaphysics. >>>>> >>>>> Accurate. Rhetorically sound. Valid. Simple. >>>>> >>>>> Back to Bo's horrible rhetoric. >>>>> >>>>> [Bo] >>>>> So, from now on I'll drop the SOL and call it by it's proper designation: >>>>> "The Strong Interpretation of the MOQ". >>>>> >>>>> [Arlo] >>>>> Actually, if you want its "proper designation", you'd have to go with "A >>>>> Strong Interpretation of Pirsig's MOQ"... in other words "Bo's MOQ". >>>>> >>>>> Frankly, I'm continually amazed that so much effort is spent in such >>>>> shoddy ways to grasp any straw of authoritative legitimacy possible. But >>>>> since you have never really understood Pirsig, I guess no one should be >>>>> surprised. >>>>> >>>>> [Bo] >>>>> Whether Pirsig agrees or not is of little interest... >>>>> >>>>> [Arlo] >>>>> In your entire post, this is the only nine words that make any sense. >>>>> Kudos, as Ian said. >>>>> >>>>> [Bo] >>>>> ... no one can copyright reality and the MOQ is not an expansion of the >>>>> intellectual level, but an expansion of reality itself. >>>>> >>>>> [Arlo] >>>>> I'll take the liberty to correct this monstrosity as well. >>>>> >>>>> "... no one can copyright reality and [my interpretation of Pirsig's] MOQ >>>>> is not an expansion of the intellectual level, but an expansion of >>>>> reality itself. " >>>>> >>>>> Its really no wonder, Bo, with such a dismal display of "thinking", only >>>>> three or four people here take you seriously or pay attention to this SOL >>>>> nonsense at all. >>>>> >>>>> If you had been paying attention, you'd have seen I provided you a sound >>>>> rhetorical and argumentatively valid platform last week. >>>>> >>>>> [Arlo previously] >>>>> Pirsig's ideas = "A metaphysics of Quality" (the foundation for which we >>>>> are all here, to be sure), and Bo's ideas = "A metaphysics of Quality" >>>>> that is a critical revision of Pirsig's ideas. >>>>> >>>>> Bo might say "A metaphysics of Quality that holds the intellectual level >>>>> to SOM is better than A metaphysics of Quality that considers SOM to be >>>>> one on many intellectual patterns", instead of "THE metaphysics of >>>>> Quality holds the intellectual level to SOM". >>>>> >>>>> [Arlo] >>>>> Your latest post is simply more evidence that you are eternally trapped >>>>> in some battle (with yourself?) for interpretative legitimacy. I had >>>>> hoped, as I'm sure others were doing, that your time away was spent >>>>> figuring that out. Obviously not. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> >>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
