Andre,
To state it again, on the highest level I understand the MoQ as
Quality(upatterned experience/patterned experience.) But from my experience,
you may be correct when you say "reality is not composed of anything."
Patterns are illusion, and even Emptiness is empty. The MoQ as explained
intellectually is illusion, but one I think very useful in its explanation.
And my interpretation of the Intellectual Level I also find very useful because:
"One can then examine intellectual realities the same way he examines
paintings in an art gallery, not with an effort to find out which one is the
‘real’ painting, but simply to enjoy and keep those that are of value. There
are many sets of intellectual reality in existence and we can perceive some to
have more quality than others, but that we do so is, in part, the result of our
history and current patterns of values. (Pirsig, 1991, p.103)”
(McWatt,Anthony,MOQ Textbook)
And surely you wouldn't expect my understanding to change because dmb, Arlo,
Ron, Dan or the Pope think differently. My mind doesn't work like that.
Marsha
On Sep 3, 2010, at 1:18 PM, MarshaV wrote:
>
> Andre,
>
> I understand the MoQ to Quality(unpatterned experience/patterned experience).
> I understand static patterns one way, you understand them another.
> Intellectual Static Patterns of Value are reified concepts and the rules for
> their rational analysis and manipulation. Intellectual patterns process from
> a subject/object conceptual framework creating false boundaries that give the
> illusion of independence, or 'thingness'. The fourth level is a formalized
> subject/object level (SOM), where the paramount demand is for rational,
> objective knowledge, which is free from the taint of any subjectivity.
>
> As far as I know intellectual patterns are as I stated above, and I have seen
> no evidence to the contrary. Have you presented an intellectual pattern
> that transcends a subject/object representation of reality, excluding art
> which may use intellectual patterns but also makes use of inorganic,
> biological and social patterns and often goes beyond. Where is your
> evidence? Let's see you demonstrate an intellectual pattern that does not
> reify concepts, that does not create a self involved in analyzing such
> concepts, or does not represent the rules for such manipulation? You cannot
> do it, because the minute you've begun you have divided and formed an object
> and an analyzing self.
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 3, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Andre Broersen wrote:
>
>> Marsha to Andre:
>>
>> "As mentioned above, Pirsig considers any philosophy that asserts that
>> reality is composed from mind or matter or a combination of both is an SOM
>> philosophy."
>> (McWatt, PhD Thesis 2005, p119)
>>
>> Andre:
>> So what are you saying Marsha? Or are you, as ever, continuing your
>> soliloquize?
>>
>> The point of the whole thing is that reality is to be found in
>> EXPERIENCE...and as soon as you are trying to find it and have found it, it
>> is gone. Reality isn't 'composed' of anything. Do you need your SOL shit to
>> have that confirmed? Christ almighty, for fuck sake, do not bother us with
>> the 'I miss Bo' crap!
>>
>> Pirsig 'observed' in passing...what had happened (and he named it SOM) and
>> you, and Bo, and Mary have stuck to that as Revelation itself. For goodness
>> sake...this is the MOQ. Some on this list have passed that subject-object
>> stuff long, long ago...as certainly dmb and Arlo, Ron and Dan are trying to
>> make clear. ( of course I have missed people...that is the intellectual
>> level for ya).
>>
>>
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>
>
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