Hi John
On 2010-09-05 07:30, John Carl wrote:
Magnus,
My wondering is much like yours, in that the current models of understanding
were somehow missing the picture - stuck in a wrong mindset. Maybe the
ancients weren't so far off just dubbing it all aetherially! And yeah, I
made that word up, but you get the point.
Not sure, so probably not. :-(
Our one conclusion is that the relationship of space and gravity needs
revision. Gravity and Space functions of one thing, rather than an
intersection of two independent entities reacting to the other. Your
speculation about space "pushing" and matter interfering, rather than
matter sucking, and space passively observing, seems a very likely and
interesting hypothesis.
How do you test it?
I have no idea. Or rather, I have a bunch, but none ready enough for
execution.
For example, if you want to show that it pushes instead of pulls you can
start by showing that it comes from the other side than thought. In the
case of the Earth you should show that it comes from all directions
*but* the sun. But as Adrie said, we can only see the effects of
gravity, and the effects *does* come from the sun because that's the
objects that is interfering with the gravity "zero level".
Another line of thought is what Horse mentioned the other day. If
gravity comes from space, and space is expanding, then it should get
weaker with time. If we can find evidence that gravity was higher when
the sun and our planets formed, then that could be a smoking gun. But I
doubt anyone has searched for such evidence. Perhaps we could find it on
earth, or by looking outward for some tell-tale sign in the sky. But
with things like these, what you see is very influenced by the system of
thought you assume to begin with. If your assumption is that gravity
pulls and space are warped by it, then that is probably the answer
you'll get.
Yes, so there must be something within that empty space that is able to
push space and galaxies apart, right?
The question is, is it more logical to invent some new patch like dark
energy that nobody knows what it is? Or, explain it using a push-gravity
model that more or less does what dark energy is supposed to do, plus does
what what the current model of gravity does?
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by what dark energy is supposed to
do. How exactly do they relate? If you don't mind my asking.
In the current model, gravity pulls together planet systems, galaxies
and also the entire universe. And that works in the smaller scale like
planet systems, but to be able to explain the rotation of the outer
regions of galaxies, scientists need to invent dark matter to add matter
(i.e. pulling gravity), otherwise the model says that the outer regions
should spin much slower (like pluto does compared to inner planets), or
get expelled from the galaxy.
If we expand the scale to inter-galactic space, we suddenly see that
galaxies are speeding away from eachother, *and* that the speed is
increasing. So, for this scale, the scientists need to *remove* matter
(i.e. pulling gravity), but since there's no matter to remove, they
invent a new force they call dark energy which is pushing galaxies apart.
But what I think is that the dark energy is really gravity itself, and
that the dark matter needed to keep the outer layers of galaxies
together or really the effect of that inter-galactic gravity pushing
harder on those outer layers of the galaxy. Inside the galaxy, that
inter-galactic gravity has been dispersed and is where we can use the
pulling gravity model without problems.
We should also remember that when Einstein made that theory about
gravity, he thought the universe was static. Not sure he even knew there
were other galaxies?
And actually, the shape of galaxies presents another way to possibly
show that gravity has been decreasing since the big one. Many galaxies
are spiral shaped, but nobody seems to know how that shape came to be. I
think the every decreasing gravitational pressure from inter-galactic
space is causing it. As the pressure decreases, the galaxy expands bit
by bit and the outermost layer slows down like a spinning figure skater
expanding her arms.
Perhaps Horse's friend could comment on that?
Magnus
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