Adrie, Yeah, it's a conundrum. Still don't think it's Bo, but it sure is someone. Marsha mebbe?
John On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 10:33 AM, ADRIE KINTZIGER <[email protected]>wrote: > [email protected] aan moq_discuss > details weergeven 18:40 (37 minuten geleden) > > Hi Ade > > You started by mentioning SOL, and SOL depends on the levels, it is defined > in terms of the levels, so I don't see how you back up to ZMM after > mentioning it. It was the SOL I was commenting, not Jung. > > > > > @ Hello Magnus, > Bodvar uses the phrase SOM is Quality's intellect. > As far as Zen and... goes i think i understand why he is saying this. > I think Jung confirms this. > We are in 1975 and Lila is yet to be published. > > > I don't see a problem with ascribing the skill to Quality. I *do* see a > problem with giving it a whole new level. As I said, the ramifications of > doing it are simply too severe and wrecks havoc in the level hierarchy. The > two examples I gave are just two, I could go on for quite a while. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > @ Lila has just been published. A metaphysics is delineated. A question may > be asked, how does SOM, which did all that good work in Zen and... fit in? > It's a legitimate question. > Bodvar feels there has been a cop out and the fruits of Zen and... are left > rotting on the vine. > He feels SOM did great things and now it's been dissolved. This seems like > an injustice doesn't it? > SODV attempts to indicate that SOM is alive and well. > Bodvar thinks Robert Pirsig is playing slippery eel. He knows he's wrong > but > he won't admit it and make himself look inferior to Bodvar. > Now it's personal. It's about integrity. Here's one: It's Phaedrus who's > been betrayed. Robert Pirsig has done the dirty and is getting away with > it. > Bodvar IS Phaedrus now and he's not going to allow it. He'll show 'em. > But no one is backing him up. No one understands. They are all cowards and > cheats. It's not persecution, they really aren't up to it. > This town ain't big enough for two metaphysics. There's a gonna be a > showdown. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Hello , ade, i have a question towards you to reconcider my position, as i > stated earlier on. > In fact, i think i have more than one actually. > But lets start with this for now > > Why is your account newly made for use on this list , and is not used > previous to these events? > Why are you talking as Bodrus, as in Bodvar is pheadrus,or as in Bodvar > represents the pre-hospitalised Pirsig? > Why are your Jung Terms all to find back on 1 wikipage,but you do not use > wat Jung was representing, as in multiple identities. > Why is the above quoted the biggest Pirsig defacement-event ever on this > list? > Why is your englisch improving faster than lightspeed,( compared with the > first postings?) > > This is for now , i am still to reconcider my position. > Adrie > > > > > > 2010/9/5 <[email protected]> > > > Hi Ade > > > > You started by mentioning SOL, and SOL depends on the levels, it is > defined > > in terms of the levels, so I don't see how you back up to ZMM after > > mentioning it. It was the SOL I was commenting, not Jung. > > > > > > > > > > @ Hello Magnus, > > Bodvar uses the phrase SOM is Quality's intellect. > > As far as Zen and... goes i think i understand why he is saying this. > > I think Jung confirms this. > > We are in 1975 and Lila is yet to be published. > > > > > > I don't see a problem with ascribing the skill to Quality. I *do* see a > > problem with giving it a whole new level. As I said, the ramifications of > > doing it are simply too severe and wrecks havoc in the level hierarchy. > The > > two examples I gave are just two, I could go on for quite a while. > > > > > > > > > > @ Lila has just been published. A metaphysics is delineated. A question > may > > be asked, how does SOM, which did all that good work in Zen and... fit > in? > > It's a legitimate question. > > Bodvar feels there has been a cop out and the fruits of Zen and... are > left > > rotting on the vine. > > He feels SOM did great things and now it's been dissolved. This seems > like > > an injustice doesn't it? > > SODV attempts to indicate that SOM is alive and well. > > Bodvar thinks Robert Pirsig is playing slippery eel. He knows he's wrong > > but he won't admit it and make himself look inferior to Bodvar. > > Now it's personal. It's about integrity. Here's one: It's Phaedrus who's > > been betrayed. Robert Pirsig has done the dirty and is getting away with > it. > > Bodvar IS Phaedrus now and he's not going to allow it. He'll show 'em. > > But no one is backing him up. No one understands. They are all cowards > and > > cheats. It's not persecution, they really aren't up to it. > > This town ain't big enough for two metaphysics. There's a gonna be a > > showdown. > > > > > > > > > 2. Lila uses a different set of opposites to that found in the previous > > book in order to explain evolution in terms of quality. > > > It's author has stated in SODV that levels submerge subjects and > objects. > > I don't think it's that easy. > > > I think i get what you are saying, but the submerged subjects and > objects > > are a division of the stack itself. > > > So you're right and wrong at the same time. > > > I think. > > > > I don't think I got that. Do you mean that the S/O division comes before > > the level division? > > > > > > > > > > @ The first 2 levels are objects and the next 2 are subjects according to > > SODV. In your terms, the first 2 stacks are objects and the next 2 stacks > > are subjects. I keep getting these mixed up but i think that's it. > > The S/O division is submerged by giving 2 stacks to one and 2 stacks to > the > > other. > > > > > > In that case, I disagree. I think the level division comes before S/O. > > Every single quality event is first of all a mix of static and dynamic. > > After that, it's one (or more) distinct types of patterns (levels), then > you > > can start talking about the two sides of the event, the subject on one > side > > and the object on the other. So, I'd disagree with the SODV diagram. > Higher > > levels get more *dynamic*, and that does have a certain connection with > what > > many call subjective. But to make things metaphysically coherent, it's > > better to bury the S/O division under the level division. > > > > The important thing to remember is that the subject need *not* be > sentient, > > which demystifies thought-experiments like Schrödinger's cat. > > > > But that's probably a bit OT. > > > > Magnus > > > > > > @ I will think about what you have said here. When i read Thomas Kuhn it > > became apparent to be that when a new paradigm claims to include an older > > one this very often turns out to be misleading. So i reckon you may be > onto > > something here. > > Nice going. > > Thank you > > Ade > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > > Archives: > > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > > > -- > parser > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
