Me? Come on...
On Sep 5, 2010, at 3:23 PM, John Carl wrote:
> Adrie,
>
> Yeah, it's a conundrum. Still don't think it's Bo, but it sure is someone.
> Marsha mebbe?
>
> John
>
> On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 10:33 AM, ADRIE KINTZIGER <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>> [email protected] aan moq_discuss
>> details weergeven 18:40 (37 minuten geleden)
>>
>> Hi Ade
>>
>> You started by mentioning SOL, and SOL depends on the levels, it is defined
>> in terms of the levels, so I don't see how you back up to ZMM after
>> mentioning it. It was the SOL I was commenting, not Jung.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> @ Hello Magnus,
>> Bodvar uses the phrase SOM is Quality's intellect.
>> As far as Zen and... goes i think i understand why he is saying this.
>> I think Jung confirms this.
>> We are in 1975 and Lila is yet to be published.
>>
>>
>> I don't see a problem with ascribing the skill to Quality. I *do* see a
>> problem with giving it a whole new level. As I said, the ramifications of
>> doing it are simply too severe and wrecks havoc in the level hierarchy. The
>> two examples I gave are just two, I could go on for quite a while.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> @ Lila has just been published. A metaphysics is delineated. A question may
>> be asked, how does SOM, which did all that good work in Zen and... fit in?
>> It's a legitimate question.
>> Bodvar feels there has been a cop out and the fruits of Zen and... are left
>> rotting on the vine.
>> He feels SOM did great things and now it's been dissolved. This seems like
>> an injustice doesn't it?
>> SODV attempts to indicate that SOM is alive and well.
>> Bodvar thinks Robert Pirsig is playing slippery eel. He knows he's wrong
>> but
>> he won't admit it and make himself look inferior to Bodvar.
>> Now it's personal. It's about integrity. Here's one: It's Phaedrus who's
>> been betrayed. Robert Pirsig has done the dirty and is getting away with
>> it.
>> Bodvar IS Phaedrus now and he's not going to allow it. He'll show 'em.
>> But no one is backing him up. No one understands. They are all cowards and
>> cheats. It's not persecution, they really aren't up to it.
>> This town ain't big enough for two metaphysics. There's a gonna be a
>> showdown.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Hello , ade, i have a question towards you to reconcider my position, as i
>> stated earlier on.
>> In fact, i think i have more than one actually.
>> But lets start with this for now
>>
>> Why is your account newly made for use on this list , and is not used
>> previous to these events?
>> Why are you talking as Bodrus, as in Bodvar is pheadrus,or as in Bodvar
>> represents the pre-hospitalised Pirsig?
>> Why are your Jung Terms all to find back on 1 wikipage,but you do not use
>> wat Jung was representing, as in multiple identities.
>> Why is the above quoted the biggest Pirsig defacement-event ever on this
>> list?
>> Why is your englisch improving faster than lightspeed,( compared with the
>> first postings?)
>>
>> This is for now , i am still to reconcider my position.
>> Adrie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2010/9/5 <[email protected]>
>>
>>> Hi Ade
>>>
>>> You started by mentioning SOL, and SOL depends on the levels, it is
>> defined
>>> in terms of the levels, so I don't see how you back up to ZMM after
>>> mentioning it. It was the SOL I was commenting, not Jung.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> @ Hello Magnus,
>>> Bodvar uses the phrase SOM is Quality's intellect.
>>> As far as Zen and... goes i think i understand why he is saying this.
>>> I think Jung confirms this.
>>> We are in 1975 and Lila is yet to be published.
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't see a problem with ascribing the skill to Quality. I *do* see a
>>> problem with giving it a whole new level. As I said, the ramifications of
>>> doing it are simply too severe and wrecks havoc in the level hierarchy.
>> The
>>> two examples I gave are just two, I could go on for quite a while.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> @ Lila has just been published. A metaphysics is delineated. A question
>> may
>>> be asked, how does SOM, which did all that good work in Zen and... fit
>> in?
>>> It's a legitimate question.
>>> Bodvar feels there has been a cop out and the fruits of Zen and... are
>> left
>>> rotting on the vine.
>>> He feels SOM did great things and now it's been dissolved. This seems
>> like
>>> an injustice doesn't it?
>>> SODV attempts to indicate that SOM is alive and well.
>>> Bodvar thinks Robert Pirsig is playing slippery eel. He knows he's wrong
>>> but he won't admit it and make himself look inferior to Bodvar.
>>> Now it's personal. It's about integrity. Here's one: It's Phaedrus who's
>>> been betrayed. Robert Pirsig has done the dirty and is getting away with
>> it.
>>> Bodvar IS Phaedrus now and he's not going to allow it. He'll show 'em.
>>> But no one is backing him up. No one understands. They are all cowards
>> and
>>> cheats. It's not persecution, they really aren't up to it.
>>> This town ain't big enough for two metaphysics. There's a gonna be a
>>> showdown.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> 2. Lila uses a different set of opposites to that found in the previous
>>> book in order to explain evolution in terms of quality.
>>>> It's author has stated in SODV that levels submerge subjects and
>> objects.
>>> I don't think it's that easy.
>>>> I think i get what you are saying, but the submerged subjects and
>> objects
>>> are a division of the stack itself.
>>>> So you're right and wrong at the same time.
>>>> I think.
>>>
>>> I don't think I got that. Do you mean that the S/O division comes before
>>> the level division?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> @ The first 2 levels are objects and the next 2 are subjects according to
>>> SODV. In your terms, the first 2 stacks are objects and the next 2 stacks
>>> are subjects. I keep getting these mixed up but i think that's it.
>>> The S/O division is submerged by giving 2 stacks to one and 2 stacks to
>> the
>>> other.
>>>
>>>
>>> In that case, I disagree. I think the level division comes before S/O.
>>> Every single quality event is first of all a mix of static and dynamic.
>>> After that, it's one (or more) distinct types of patterns (levels), then
>> you
>>> can start talking about the two sides of the event, the subject on one
>> side
>>> and the object on the other. So, I'd disagree with the SODV diagram.
>> Higher
>>> levels get more *dynamic*, and that does have a certain connection with
>> what
>>> many call subjective. But to make things metaphysically coherent, it's
>>> better to bury the S/O division under the level division.
>>>
>>> The important thing to remember is that the subject need *not* be
>> sentient,
>>> which demystifies thought-experiments like Schrödinger's cat.
>>>
>>> But that's probably a bit OT.
>>>
>>> Magnus
>>>
>>>
>>> @ I will think about what you have said here. When i read Thomas Kuhn it
>>> became apparent to be that when a new paradigm claims to include an older
>>> one this very often turns out to be misleading. So i reckon you may be
>> onto
>>> something here.
>>> Nice going.
>>> Thank you
>>> Ade
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> parser
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