Ohhh.. Hi squonk! (never mind, Adrie. Cat's outta the bag) (sorry marsha, for casting aspersion ;-)
John On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 12:23 PM, John Carl <[email protected]> wrote: > Adrie, > > Yeah, it's a conundrum. Still don't think it's Bo, but it sure is > someone. Marsha mebbe? > > John > > > On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 10:33 AM, ADRIE KINTZIGER <[email protected]>wrote: > >> [email protected] aan moq_discuss >> details weergeven 18:40 (37 minuten geleden) >> >> Hi Ade >> >> You started by mentioning SOL, and SOL depends on the levels, it is >> defined >> in terms of the levels, so I don't see how you back up to ZMM after >> mentioning it. It was the SOL I was commenting, not Jung. >> >> >> >> >> @ Hello Magnus, >> Bodvar uses the phrase SOM is Quality's intellect. >> As far as Zen and... goes i think i understand why he is saying this. >> I think Jung confirms this. >> We are in 1975 and Lila is yet to be published. >> >> >> I don't see a problem with ascribing the skill to Quality. I *do* see a >> problem with giving it a whole new level. As I said, the ramifications of >> doing it are simply too severe and wrecks havoc in the level hierarchy. >> The >> two examples I gave are just two, I could go on for quite a while. >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> @ Lila has just been published. A metaphysics is delineated. A question >> may >> be asked, how does SOM, which did all that good work in Zen and... fit in? >> It's a legitimate question. >> Bodvar feels there has been a cop out and the fruits of Zen and... are >> left >> rotting on the vine. >> He feels SOM did great things and now it's been dissolved. This seems like >> an injustice doesn't it? >> SODV attempts to indicate that SOM is alive and well. >> Bodvar thinks Robert Pirsig is playing slippery eel. He knows he's wrong >> but >> he won't admit it and make himself look inferior to Bodvar. >> Now it's personal. It's about integrity. Here's one: It's Phaedrus who's >> been betrayed. Robert Pirsig has done the dirty and is getting away with >> it. >> Bodvar IS Phaedrus now and he's not going to allow it. He'll show 'em. >> But no one is backing him up. No one understands. They are all cowards and >> cheats. It's not persecution, they really aren't up to it. >> This town ain't big enough for two metaphysics. There's a gonna be a >> showdown. >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Hello , ade, i have a question towards you to reconcider my position, as i >> stated earlier on. >> In fact, i think i have more than one actually. >> But lets start with this for now >> >> Why is your account newly made for use on this list , and is not used >> previous to these events? >> Why are you talking as Bodrus, as in Bodvar is pheadrus,or as in Bodvar >> represents the pre-hospitalised Pirsig? >> Why are your Jung Terms all to find back on 1 wikipage,but you do not use >> wat Jung was representing, as in multiple identities. >> Why is the above quoted the biggest Pirsig defacement-event ever on this >> list? >> Why is your englisch improving faster than lightspeed,( compared with the >> first postings?) >> >> This is for now , i am still to reconcider my position. >> Adrie >> >> >> >> >> >> 2010/9/5 <[email protected]> >> >> > Hi Ade >> > >> > You started by mentioning SOL, and SOL depends on the levels, it is >> defined >> > in terms of the levels, so I don't see how you back up to ZMM after >> > mentioning it. It was the SOL I was commenting, not Jung. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > @ Hello Magnus, >> > Bodvar uses the phrase SOM is Quality's intellect. >> > As far as Zen and... goes i think i understand why he is saying this. >> > I think Jung confirms this. >> > We are in 1975 and Lila is yet to be published. >> > >> > >> > I don't see a problem with ascribing the skill to Quality. I *do* see a >> > problem with giving it a whole new level. As I said, the ramifications >> of >> > doing it are simply too severe and wrecks havoc in the level hierarchy. >> The >> > two examples I gave are just two, I could go on for quite a while. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > @ Lila has just been published. A metaphysics is delineated. A question >> may >> > be asked, how does SOM, which did all that good work in Zen and... fit >> in? >> > It's a legitimate question. >> > Bodvar feels there has been a cop out and the fruits of Zen and... are >> left >> > rotting on the vine. >> > He feels SOM did great things and now it's been dissolved. This seems >> like >> > an injustice doesn't it? >> > SODV attempts to indicate that SOM is alive and well. >> > Bodvar thinks Robert Pirsig is playing slippery eel. He knows he's wrong >> > but he won't admit it and make himself look inferior to Bodvar. >> > Now it's personal. It's about integrity. Here's one: It's Phaedrus who's >> > been betrayed. Robert Pirsig has done the dirty and is getting away with >> it. >> > Bodvar IS Phaedrus now and he's not going to allow it. He'll show 'em. >> > But no one is backing him up. No one understands. They are all cowards >> and >> > cheats. It's not persecution, they really aren't up to it. >> > This town ain't big enough for two metaphysics. There's a gonna be a >> > showdown. >> > >> > >> > >> > > 2. Lila uses a different set of opposites to that found in the >> previous >> > book in order to explain evolution in terms of quality. >> > > It's author has stated in SODV that levels submerge subjects and >> objects. >> > I don't think it's that easy. >> > > I think i get what you are saying, but the submerged subjects and >> objects >> > are a division of the stack itself. >> > > So you're right and wrong at the same time. >> > > I think. >> > >> > I don't think I got that. Do you mean that the S/O division comes before >> > the level division? >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > @ The first 2 levels are objects and the next 2 are subjects according >> to >> > SODV. In your terms, the first 2 stacks are objects and the next 2 >> stacks >> > are subjects. I keep getting these mixed up but i think that's it. >> > The S/O division is submerged by giving 2 stacks to one and 2 stacks to >> the >> > other. >> > >> > >> > In that case, I disagree. I think the level division comes before S/O. >> > Every single quality event is first of all a mix of static and dynamic. >> > After that, it's one (or more) distinct types of patterns (levels), then >> you >> > can start talking about the two sides of the event, the subject on one >> side >> > and the object on the other. So, I'd disagree with the SODV diagram. >> Higher >> > levels get more *dynamic*, and that does have a certain connection with >> what >> > many call subjective. But to make things metaphysically coherent, it's >> > better to bury the S/O division under the level division. >> > >> > The important thing to remember is that the subject need *not* be >> sentient, >> > which demystifies thought-experiments like Schrödinger's cat. >> > >> > But that's probably a bit OT. >> > >> > Magnus >> > >> > >> > @ I will think about what you have said here. When i read Thomas Kuhn it >> > became apparent to be that when a new paradigm claims to include an >> older >> > one this very often turns out to be misleading. So i reckon you may be >> onto >> > something here. >> > Nice going. >> > Thank you >> > Ade >> > >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list >> > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> > Archives: >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> > http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> parser >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
