Thanks Ham, I'll see if I can get the books that you suggest.
Marsha On Sep 7, 2010, at 2:43 AM, Ham Priday wrote: > > On Sep 6, 2010, at 8:28 AM, X Acto quoted Ron, who had asked: > >> But the question that is avoided is not whether or not the idea of >> "being as one" is technologically superior but rather is "being as one" >> better evolutionarily than "being as in flux" and dynamic. >> >> Is this technological superiority better evolutionarily? > > Marsha replied (also with a question): >> Have the purposes chosen by Western intellect provided goodness? >> I'd say yes, but mostly no. I think RMP has asked the question, >> Krishnamurti and the Dalai Lama certainly have, with all our >> technological advancement are humans suffering less. Tough >> to know, but again my guess would be mostly no they are not >> suffering less. ... >> >> While understanding that all is Value, I, personally, do not like >> to make value judgements. If I do, moments later I can think of >> twelve other reasons why I might be wrong. But it is some peoples >> preference to proclaim judgements. Maybe I'm suggesting I do not >> think you question can be answered. >> >> What do you think? Have I gone off in a different direction? > > "Being" is an ontological term which conventionally defines "the quality or > state of having existence." In other words, it refers to ontology. Being is > neither "one" nor "many" but, rather, the very essence or nature of IS-ness. > Marsha is talking about is morality -- i.e., the state of being good, bad, or > indifferent. In Existentialism moral issues are a function of free will. > Jean-Paul Sartre and the existentialists were persuaded that existence > precedes essence, which leads to the moralistic conclusion that "man is > condemned to freedom" in a deterministic universe without meaning. > > I cut my wisdom teeth on Sartre's tome "Being and Nothingness", so I believe > I qualify to address Ron's question. Sartre was a phenomenologist, like > Husserl and Heidegger who influenced him, but he's credited for fathering the > philosophy of Existentialism, founded on the concept of Being (or > "Beingness") as ultimate reality. Sartre himself described Being as having > two aspects: being-IN-itself and being-FOR-itself. Being-in-itself can only > be approximated metaphysically, since the human experience of beingness by > nature takes the form of being-for-itself. The being of Consciousness, for > example, is the process of becoming the person that will be added to recorded > history. > > Sartre also postulated that Being "is the foundation of nothingness as the > nihilation of [one's] own being"; so that self-reflection, in Sartrean terms, > is an act of nihilation. "In short, every effort to conceive of the idea of a > being which would be the foundation of its being results inevitably in > forming that of a being which, contingent as being-in-itself, would be the > foundation of its own nothingness" This gets a bit complicated, but suffice > it to say that, like Pirsigians, Sartre believed that the subjective self is > illusory, and that an individual's "true being" is its objective "facticity" > which can only be known posthumously. > > In fact, if you substitute "being-in-itself" for the Quality of Pirsig's > philosophy, and replace his "patterns" with "being-for-itself", you may note > a parallel that (for me, at least) puts the MoQ in the existential category. > As an Essentialist, of course, I regard any philosophy that is founded on > existence or being rather than an absolute source as a form of existentialism. > > This is an interesting topic that has elicited a variety of diverse ideas. I > hope the Sartrean slant helps to clarify some of your issues. > > Respectfully, > Ham > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
