On Sep 12, 2010, at 4:25 AM, Andre Broersen wrote: > > > Andre to Marsha: > How many times do 'we' have to tell you that Bodvar's fucking SOLpositing is > illogical!!! > In the MOQ there is no subjectivity! > > Marsha: I have no intentions of reacting to your drama, psychological > bullying or your four-letter words. > > Andre: > Of course you have no intentions of doing so but we are talking MOQ here. We > are talking about > Mr. Pirsigs MOQ, and this simply states that 'Quality destroys objectivity > every time'(ZMM, p351)
Yes, this is true. It is about caring. > > Marsha to dmb: > And I am sick of being told I am anti-intellectual because I think that RMP's > "Kill all intellectual patterns. Kill them completely" Is the key to actual > awakening to the MoQ's highest point-of-view. Not this, not that. Yes it is > my favorite. It is my bottom line, and it is past speculation. > > Andre: > And I am not convinced you actually understand this 'key'. You seem to take > it literally when it really means 'to detach yourself from these > patterns',(LILA,p407) to NOT attach to them any inherent status. Yet this is > what is happening when you bandy things like 'objectification' and > 'reification' around. "Kill all intellectual patterns." points to mediation/mindfulness which is a technique to awakening and eventually enlightenment. Reification describes how the mind functions. It has its usefulness, but to deeply understand the process is to have a new value perspective. > This 'perfect little acorn...' as you put it, challenges your own > understanding of the intellectual level. It suggests that reification of > concepts produces 'anomalies' so well identified by Phaedrus in his 'platypi' > conception. The MOQ asserts an anti-reification, an anti-objectification. It > asserts static patterns of value . It asserts Quality, not objectivity! I am not against reification; it is the way the mind works. I am for keeping primary in the mind that while it is convenient to analyze and manipulate conceptual objects, they are _mere_ conceptually constructed patterns of ever-changing, interdependent, relative, impermanent value. Ultimately there are no divisions, everything-is-connected-to-everything. > By all means, carry on with your mantra singing and painting in an effort to > kill all intellectual patterns but this is a discussion of the MOQ put > forward by Mr. Pirsig in an effort to make the world a little bit of a better > place to live in, not only for us on a personal level, but also for our > future generations and in that process we need our intellectual patterns to > combat/challenge these 'anomalies' by perhaps absorbing them within the > framework of the root expansion of rationality. In this way we ensure that > they are not passed on, and 'that's the highest moral conduct of all.That > really advances everything, not just you. The whole world'. I care as much about the MoQ as anyone on this MD list, and that I offer a different perspective should be seen as perfectly acceptable. > This is what, amongst other things, this Discuss is about.(but this is, of > course, my own subjective opinion). To me the MoQ is about awakening. Marsha ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
