p.s. Buddhism is quite comfortable with describing conventional truth as relative truth.
On Sep 21, 2010, at 3:23 PM, MarshaV wrote: > > dmb, > > For me, the MoQ is epistemologically relative (sq) and ontologically > indeterminate (DQ). No absolute anything mentioned. > > > Marsha > > > > > On Sep 21, 2010, at 3:16 PM, MarshaV wrote: > >> >> >> That trap was cultural relativism... >> >> >> On Sep 21, 2010, at 3:01 PM, david buchanan wrote: >> >>> >>> No, that's exactly what I mean. You are confusing relativism with the >>> provisional nature of truth. The pragmatic theory of truth rejects the >>> notion of an absolute truth or an objective truth but ideas are true or not >>> depending on whether or not they function in experience. There is a >>> practical and empirical test of truth in the MOQ. Anthony probably should >>> have used the word "provisional" in that sentence. That word really is a >>> better fit with the description of truth in his next sentence, as the best >>> explanation "at a given time". >>> >>> Charges of relativism got James into hot water but Pirsig says his MOQ can >>> adopt pragmatism and radical empiricism without falling into that trap. >>> It's a bad place to be, according to almost any philosopher. In ZAMM we see >>> how he takes sides with the Sophists, who he says were slandered as >>> relativists. Pirsig is consistent about this concern with false charges of >>> relativism against his main heroes and allies. >>> And yet here you are saying the MOQ is just that. >>> >>> Sorry, but the evidence is plainly against you. If you want to be a >>> relativist, that's one thing. But don't trash Pirsig's work. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 14:22:30 -0400 >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: [MD] Quantum Enigma >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sep 21, 2010, at 1:33 PM, david buchanan wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> dmb says: >>>>> That view is beyond relativism. It is solipsism. The MOQ is neither of >>>>> those things. >>>> >>>> >>>> Marsha: >>>> Sorry, I missed this comment. Truth within the MoQ is relative. >>>> >>>> >>>> Anthony writes: >>>> “Intellectual values include truth, justice, freedom, democracy and, >>>> trial by jury. It’s worth noting that the MOQ follows a pragmatic >>>> notion of truth so truth is seen as relative in his system while >>>> Quality is seen as absolute. In consequence, the truth is defined >>>> as the highest quality intellectual explanation at a given time. >>>> >>>> RMP: >>>> If the past is any guide to the future this explanation must be taken >>>> provisionally; as useful until something better comes along. One can >>>> then examine intellectual realities the same way he examines paintings >>>> in an art gallery, not with an effort to find out which one is the ‘real’ >>>> painting, but simply to enjoy and keep those that are of value. There are >>>> many sets of intellectual reality in existence and we can perceive some >>>> to have more quality than others, but that we do so is, in part, the result >>>> of our history and current patterns of values. (Pirsig, 1991, p.103)” >>>> >>>> (McWatt,Anthony,MOQ Textbook) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> >>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html > > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
