If you insist on the phrase, "formalised subject/object" conceptual framework, Marsha, then the model you propose, is called science, and it is a sol-ution , not even a somreasoning.Not that i disagree on developing the framework.
One of the problems this model contains, is in fact that the framework is already there,it is impossible to re-invent it every day. But i think you are digging for fine-tuning,nothing wrong with that. 2010/10/20 MarshaV <[email protected]> > > On Oct 19, 2010, at 4:55 PM, Dan Glover wrote: > > > Hello everyone > > > > On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:30 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> On Oct 19, 2010, at 12:48 PM, 118 wrote: > >> > >>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 7:29 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:23 AM, Dan Glover wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hello everyone > >>>>> > >>>>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 4:26 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Oct 18, 2010, at 11:39 PM, Dan Glover wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Dan: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The intellectual level is just thinking, plain and simple. You know > >>>> that, John. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Marsha: > >>>>>> Aren't all patterns conceptually constructed? Wouldn't that make > all > >>>> levels "just thinking?" > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi Marsha > >>>>> > >>>>> I would say that within the framework of the MOQ, inorganic and > >>>>> biological patterns are physical. We can touch them, examine them. > >>>>> Social and intellectual patterns are mental... like the President of > >>>>> the United States. There is no way to physically tell the President > >>>>> apart from any other human being by examination. So to answer your > >>>>> question, no, not all levels are "just thinking." In addition, there > >>>>> seem to social patterns of value that are not intellectual, like > >>>>> saying "Bless you" when someone sneezes. Those types of patterns are > >>>>> ingrained in us to the extent that we really don't think about it. > >>>>> > >>>>> Dan > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Dan, > >>>> > >>>> If I think "Should I say "Bless you." to this guy." does that make it > an > >>>> intellectual static pattern of value or a social static pattern of > value? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Marsha > >>>> > >>> > >>> Mark: > >>> Yes. > >> > >> > >> Marsha: > >> And the notion that the Intellectual Level represent theology, science, > philosophy > >> and mathematics has collapsed into thinking about whether to say "Bless > you.", > >> or not? No, I don't buy that. > > > > Hi Marsha > > > > Sometimes in order to make the complicated a bit simpler, we start > > small. I mean, there are only four levels and they contain everything > > (except Dynamic Quality), so obviously we are using analogy here to > > order our understanding of reality. Theology, science, philosophy and > > mathematics are made up of both social and intellectual pattens. They > > are often cultural-specific, as Robert Pirsig points out. > > > > I hope that helps. > > > > Dan > > > > Hi Dan, > > Marsha: > In Anthony's PhD it states that science theology, mathematics and > philosophy are > intellectual quality patterns. So here's my understanding of the > Intellectual Level: > > The Intellectual Level, the fourth level, is comprised of static patterns > of value such > as science theology, mathematics and philosophy. The way that these > patterns > function is as reified concepts and the rules for their rational analysis > and manipulation. > Reification decontextualizes. Intellectual patterns process from a > subject/object > conceptual framework creating false boundaries that give the illusion of > independence > as a “thing” or an “object of analysis.” The fourth level is a formalized > subject/object > level (SOM), where the paramount demand is for rational, objective > knowledge, which > is free from the taint of any subjectivity like emotions, inclinations, > fears and compulsions > in order to pursue study and research in an unbiased and rational manner. > > All patterns are interdependent so naturally there would be a relationship > with social > level patterns. > > > Marsha > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > -- parser Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
