Adrie, Try to keep it sticking together, with you?
Marsha On Oct 20, 2010, at 5:24 AM, ADRIE KINTZIGER wrote: > If you insist on the phrase, "formalised subject/object" conceptual > framework, Marsha, then the model you > propose, is called science, and it is a sol-ution , not even a > somreasoning.Not that i disagree on developing the framework. > > One of the problems this model contains, is in fact that the framework is > already there,it is impossible to re-invent it every day. > But i think you are digging for fine-tuning,nothing wrong with that. > > 2010/10/20 MarshaV <[email protected]> > >> >> On Oct 19, 2010, at 4:55 PM, Dan Glover wrote: >> >>> Hello everyone >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:30 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 12:48 PM, 118 wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 7:29 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:23 AM, Dan Glover wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello everyone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 4:26 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 18, 2010, at 11:39 PM, Dan Glover wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dan: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The intellectual level is just thinking, plain and simple. You know >>>>>> that, John. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Marsha: >>>>>>>> Aren't all patterns conceptually constructed? Wouldn't that make >> all >>>>>> levels "just thinking?" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Marsha >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would say that within the framework of the MOQ, inorganic and >>>>>>> biological patterns are physical. We can touch them, examine them. >>>>>>> Social and intellectual patterns are mental... like the President of >>>>>>> the United States. There is no way to physically tell the President >>>>>>> apart from any other human being by examination. So to answer your >>>>>>> question, no, not all levels are "just thinking." In addition, there >>>>>>> seem to social patterns of value that are not intellectual, like >>>>>>> saying "Bless you" when someone sneezes. Those types of patterns are >>>>>>> ingrained in us to the extent that we really don't think about it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dan, >>>>>> >>>>>> If I think "Should I say "Bless you." to this guy." does that make it >> an >>>>>> intellectual static pattern of value or a social static pattern of >> value? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Marsha >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mark: >>>>> Yes. >>>> >>>> >>>> Marsha: >>>> And the notion that the Intellectual Level represent theology, science, >> philosophy >>>> and mathematics has collapsed into thinking about whether to say "Bless >> you.", >>>> or not? No, I don't buy that. >>> >>> Hi Marsha >>> >>> Sometimes in order to make the complicated a bit simpler, we start >>> small. I mean, there are only four levels and they contain everything >>> (except Dynamic Quality), so obviously we are using analogy here to >>> order our understanding of reality. Theology, science, philosophy and >>> mathematics are made up of both social and intellectual pattens. They >>> are often cultural-specific, as Robert Pirsig points out. >>> >>> I hope that helps. >>> >>> Dan >> >> >> >> Hi Dan, >> >> Marsha: >> In Anthony's PhD it states that science theology, mathematics and >> philosophy are >> intellectual quality patterns. So here's my understanding of the >> Intellectual Level: >> >> The Intellectual Level, the fourth level, is comprised of static patterns >> of value such >> as science theology, mathematics and philosophy. The way that these >> patterns >> function is as reified concepts and the rules for their rational analysis >> and manipulation. >> Reification decontextualizes. Intellectual patterns process from a >> subject/object >> conceptual framework creating false boundaries that give the illusion of >> independence >> as a “thing” or an “object of analysis.” The fourth level is a formalized >> subject/object >> level (SOM), where the paramount demand is for rational, objective >> knowledge, which >> is free from the taint of any subjectivity like emotions, inclinations, >> fears and compulsions >> in order to pursue study and research in an unbiased and rational manner. >> >> All patterns are interdependent so naturally there would be a relationship >> with social >> level patterns. >> >> >> Marsha >> >> >> ___ >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org/md/archives.html >> > > > > -- > parser > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
