Hello everyone On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 2:21 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Oct 19, 2010, at 4:55 PM, Dan Glover wrote: > >> Hello everyone >> >> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:30 PM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 12:48 PM, 118 wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 7:29 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:23 AM, Dan Glover wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello everyone >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 4:26 AM, MarshaV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 18, 2010, at 11:39 PM, Dan Glover wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dan: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The intellectual level is just thinking, plain and simple. You know >>>>> that, John. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Marsha: >>>>>>> Aren't all patterns conceptually constructed? Wouldn't that make all >>>>> levels "just thinking?" >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Marsha >>>>>> >>>>>> I would say that within the framework of the MOQ, inorganic and >>>>>> biological patterns are physical. We can touch them, examine them. >>>>>> Social and intellectual patterns are mental... like the President of >>>>>> the United States. There is no way to physically tell the President >>>>>> apart from any other human being by examination. So to answer your >>>>>> question, no, not all levels are "just thinking." In addition, there >>>>>> seem to social patterns of value that are not intellectual, like >>>>>> saying "Bless you" when someone sneezes. Those types of patterns are >>>>>> ingrained in us to the extent that we really don't think about it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dan >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dan, >>>>> >>>>> If I think "Should I say "Bless you." to this guy." does that make it an >>>>> intellectual static pattern of value or a social static pattern of value? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Marsha >>>>> >>>> >>>> Mark: >>>> Yes. >>> >>> >>> Marsha: >>> And the notion that the Intellectual Level represent theology, science, >>> philosophy >>> and mathematics has collapsed into thinking about whether to say "Bless >>> you.", >>> or not? No, I don't buy that. >> >> Hi Marsha >> >> Sometimes in order to make the complicated a bit simpler, we start >> small. I mean, there are only four levels and they contain everything >> (except Dynamic Quality), so obviously we are using analogy here to >> order our understanding of reality. Theology, science, philosophy and >> mathematics are made up of both social and intellectual pattens. They >> are often cultural-specific, as Robert Pirsig points out. >> >> I hope that helps. >> >> Dan > > > > Hi Dan, > > Marsha: > In Anthony's PhD it states that science theology, mathematics and philosophy > are > intellectual quality patterns. So here's my understanding of the Intellectual > Level: > > The Intellectual Level, the fourth level, is comprised of static patterns of > value such > as science theology, mathematics and philosophy. The way that these patterns > function is as reified concepts and the rules for their rational analysis and > manipulation. > Reification decontextualizes. Intellectual patterns process from a > subject/object > conceptual framework creating false boundaries that give the illusion of > independence > as a “thing” or an “object of analysis.” The fourth level is a formalized > subject/object > level (SOM), where the paramount demand is for rational, objective knowledge, > which > is free from the taint of any subjectivity like emotions, inclinations, fears > and compulsions > in order to pursue study and research in an unbiased and rational manner.
Hi Marsha You almost had me. I actually thought you might be getting it. But then you have to throw a monkey wrench into the works and foul it all up. Where in Anthony's work does it say the intellectual level is a formalized SOM? Anywhere? Or are you like Bo, just picking and choosing what you agree with? Maybe you and John and get together and relive the old times. Why do I bother? Dan > > All patterns are interdependent so naturally there would be a relationship > with social > level patterns. > > > Marsha > > > ___ > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
